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gavstone21

Greetings from Prison!

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     I'm in a prison, my crime, being born not having sufficient knowledge to worship the state. I am serving the 10th year of my 13 year sentence without parole in an Illinois public school. Although torturous, I find the institution to be quite, creative, but that would be attributing critical thinking skills to its creators. I hate every humiliating second that I attend the indoctrinating institution. The classes are boring, irrelevant, and ran by pretty mean correctional officers. But I have to say they are developing a great sense of imaginative creativity in me. Oh, not through the arts programs, but through the expression of anger that occurs in my head ( Things which I should not talk about here ). I am angry at the time they have wasted. Wait, it's not just unproductive, its counter productive to my moral, artistic, and yes, educational development. I have talked to boomers about their experience in school and seen movies from the latter half of the twentieth century. Stef is right, its gotten a lot worse.

 

    That aside, I really love philosophy.  And what I realized about love is that when the object or person you love is hurt you are hurt in a similar way and I am in agony at the sophistry going on that masquerades as philosophy. What stefan has built gives me assurance that there is TRUTH, and MORALITY, and all the other great goods of life. I am pretty inexperienced at philosophy but my experience at school( shudder ) hopefully will give me the life long spirit to fight for the NAP, and peacefully raise my children. I am very thankful for Freedomain Radio for the all the short term escapes and future aspirations I get living in this hell hole. In my current study of philosophy I have realized I am the wisest among my school because I know that I know nothing...and the state should be abolished...and communism has failed every time it has been applied. 

 

I am also interested in romantic poetry and think I have an idea of what Keats talks about and love it, but there is no-one in my school whom I can verify my ideas with and just have a conversation. Please message if you share the interest.

Also, if there are any other teens ( Or creepy 40 year olds pretending to be teens ) facing similar brain numbing experiences I would love to chat. Suffering is better with a friend. 

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Is school actually as bad as prison? Are you actually getting tortured? I'm not sure if you really do think this way or whether it is just figurative language as there is only text and no tone of voice. 

Have you thought about dropping out of school? I did that and am probably going to be graduating university at the same time as all my peers who stayed at school, but would be earlier if I didn't take the half gap year. 

I'm not sure how things go down in America in relation to education, but I know that in Australia we have alternatives to high-school which people can take once they are about 14/15 years old. I took one alternative and it was the best decision I ever made. 2 other people I used to know took the same path as me and wish they stayed at school. It really depends on who you are.

If you're the sort of person who is individualistic and very self-disciplined then go your own way. If not, then stay at school. 

This might help you in your efforts: http://www.patrickbetdavid.com/stay-school-drop-college/ 

 

Just now, gavstone21 said:

I have realized I am the wisest among my school

Really? Have you conducted tests to find that out? What constitutes as the wisest? How to you measure wisdom? Or are you just saying this to feel better about your situation? If yes, then this is important for you to know. It doesn't mean you're a bad person, it's probably just that your body is telling you something. You need to find out what this is and then solve it if you wish to move on from your suffering.

Anyway, I look forward to reading your response, and good luck at school :happy: 

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Hi @gavstone21

That's quite a click-baity title if you ask me. But that's ok.

If you actually wanted to be pro-active about making things better in your current situation, there's actually quite a lot you could do. Unless of course if you hoped others would become your saviours.

Even prisoners have a certain amount of freedom they are able to exercise, to continue your allegory. What I'm saying with this (at the same time as well another important point) is to perhaps being mindful of the things you give your attention would certainly help 'seeing' more readily available options, better utilising the circumstances.

How about you checking out a small snippet Jordan B Peterson has said in his latest Q&A at around 1 hour 12 minute mark? The video's titled : New Year's Q and A

Have a good one,

Barnsley

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Perhaps you can have a talk with your parents and see if they can homeschool you or set you up with a private tutor. Are those viable options in your situation?

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Thank you for the responses!

Let me get somethings clear:

7 hours ago, Spladam said:

Is school actually as bad as prison? Are you actually getting tortured? I'm not sure if you really do think this way or whether it is just figurative language as there is only text and no tone of voice. 

Have you thought about dropping out of school? I did that and am probably going to be graduating university at the same time as all my peers who stayed at school, but would be earlier if I didn't take the half gap year. 

I'm not sure how things go down in America in relation to education, but I know that in Australia we have alternatives to high-school which people can take once they are about 14/15 years old. I took one alternative and it was the best decision I ever made. 2 other people I used to know took the same path as me and wish they stayed at school. It really depends on who you are.

If you're the sort of person who is individualistic and very self-disciplined then go your own way. If not, then stay at school. 

This might help you in your efforts: http://www.patrickbetdavid.com/stay-school-drop-college/ 

 

Really? Have you conducted tests to find that out? What constitutes as the wisest? How to you measure wisdom? Or are you just saying this to feel better about your situation? If yes, then this is important for you to know. It doesn't mean you're a bad person, it's probably just that your body is telling you something. You need to find out what this is and then solve it if you wish to move on from your suffering.

Anyway, I look forward to reading your response, and good luck at school :happy: 

     I have never been to an actual prison but based on watching prison documentaries, I would rather be at school. So yes, there are much worse things I could be going through and I am thankful I am not going through that. Through my language I was actually trying to be humorous, but I do think that school in principal for me is a prison. I have expressed my hatred for school in obvious ways with my parents and even brought up the topic of homeschool. My parents aren't letting me drop out ( permission is required ). I think I will look into more options as far as alternatives go. 

 

     As far as my quote calling me the "wisest", I was making a reference to a quote Socrates made:“The ancient Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing.”. What I was getting down to, was the fact that most people in the school just absorb truth through culture. I left that method and found philosophy and then realized how much I don't actually know. That most basic self skepticism is not present in my school which is why I called myself the wisest. Am I the smartest? No. Do I have the most experience? No. It was supposed to be a humorous expression of the me the lone philosophy adherent ( and ancap ) in a sea of people who just will their beliefs as true. I don't know much, but I know how much I don't know...and the state needs to be abolished. 

 

     I do have some ideas to make my school experience proactive. I have been having conversations with people skeptical of the existing system and introducing them to philosophy and FDR. I try to make school as interesting as possible. Sorry if my original post sounded like a pity plea. 

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Just now, gavstone21 said:

 As far as my quote calling me the "wisest", I was making a reference to a quote Socrates made:“The ancient Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing.”

Ah, I see, I should probably read more Socrates, haha. I got the impression that you were trying to bolster your self-image, my bad. 

 

Just now, gavstone21 said:

Through my language I was actually trying to be humorous

Righto, again I had the wrong impression, my apologies. 

Just now, gavstone21 said:

My parents aren't letting me drop out ( permission is required

That sucks, but it's good to hear that you're taking a proactive approach to school rather than letting it get the better of you. You're at school for the best part of your waking hours so it's important to get the most out of it. 

Anyway, good luck and keep us updated on how lefties respond to your efforts at spreading non-PC ideas :) 

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3 hours ago, gavstone21 said:

My parents aren't letting me drop out ( permission is required ).

I'm not sure if you know this but in Illinois, (I happen to be an Illinoisan myself.) you can legally drop out at age 17. Therefore, you can leave school a year early. 

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2 hours ago, S1988 said:

I'm not sure if you know this but in Illinois, (I happen to be an Illinoisan myself.) you can legally drop out at age 17. Therefore, you can leave school a year early. 

Right, and I am a sophomore, 15 years old. 

 

 

 

Well, thanks all for the welcome! I will make sure to tell you guys more about the current education system and am glad for the rational outlet!

 

Furhter: Spladam, don't apologize for your misinterpretation. It is my job as the writer to convey what I mean. ( :

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In Washington State, there is a program called Running Start where the state will pay for you to go to community college your junior and senior years of high school. Best school decision I ever made.

Maybe something similar in your state?

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I'm not a teen, but I'm 23 and I was in your shoes not that long ago. It sounds like you're gifted, and I know from my own experience that being an outlier can be a very difficult time. Even as an adult, it's hard to connect with people my own age. I don't know exactly what your challenges are, but here's the advice I'd give to my younger self:

When there aren't any other smart people around, learn how to communicate in a simpler manner that doesn't give away your giftedness, or at least be very careful not to be perceived as arrogant. Think of Trump communicating in simpleton-language. If you give away clues that you're gifted, you instantly put distance between yourself and the group. It's tempting to be resentful that others aren't as smart as you, but resentfulness will create a barrier between you and other people, which will be harder to fix the older you get. Accept that others aren't like you, and try to understand them so that you can blend in when you need to. Hopefully you can find some more intelligent company. I don't know if that's useful, but I think it probably is. Good luck, and hang in there.

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Hi @Will 001

I have a major red flag - objection to your proposed suggestions, although it is easily recognisable that there's a genuine goodwill at play from your side.

They're detrimental :

° to the likelihood of finding and signaling to virtuous individuals (not confused with 'virtue signaling' )

° self-esteem

° to the development of correctly identifying motives and character in the present

I'm saying it because there's a lot of effort & risk involved with playing the true vs. false self (link) based on outside incentives. Also, isn't it true that people who generally do that aren't genuine, therefore aim at manipulation?

What do you think of an opponent in chess who let's you win?

A fellow race competitor who gives you a headstart?

A friend who doesn't tell you everything that is on his mind because he thinks you probably won't understand it?

Now, regarding Trump it's different. He is in 'game mode, negotiation mindset, cold business' and isn't trying to get true friends. If you asked me, I'd say it's more important what he emphasises in his speeches, how he makes it appealing for people to see something he desires to communicate. Sure, he does it in an easily digestible fashion but I wouldn't say those who got the gist when he hadn't dumbed it down are too fond of his new style. They might see it as a necessary bad, trolling, sophisticated strategy partially aimed at making people think what he wanted.

In virtuous relationships: What I would rather suggest is to be truthful as much as possible and to choose your battles carefully. Appropriate self-knowledge will give you enough certainty in your assessment of 'giftedness' or lack of, in order to see who's worth your treasures/well intended to be associated with. Treating people your very best, then according to how you're treated back has saved me many a 'headaches' and when not, caused many a 'heart-aches', disappointments.

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You seem like a very intelligent and wise young man, but that's coming from a 22 year old ;) 

If I can give any advice for your school "career", I would tell you to finish the minimal education that is required and accept it as a reality, although a forced reality. Sometimes accepting something is easier, and I wish I had done that when I was younger. I dropped out, but if I had just stayed for 2 more years, my last few years would have been much, much easier. I'll also tell you to enjoy the good bits, even though you realize the overall experience is negative. Try to learn from the experience you share with your peers, teachers and parents. Many people will grow old not having this experience in a real sense, and you seem to have 'unlocked' it at a very early age, don't spoil it, damn it! (I was about 17 when I had this shift)

I, and I'm probably not the only one, often imagine that I have the chance to go all the way back to where I was a child and do it all over again, but with the mind of my current self. How interesting would that be. I was rebelling against the system and I was angry, and it didn't serve me well. If I could do it all over again, I would go through all of it like a Buddhist monk, instead of rebelling, accepting what I cannot change and instead of being angry, realizing that everyone else around me is in the same situation but they do not know. And I am fairly certain that you know what I mean with that. So good luck!

"I am in agony at the sophistry going on that masquerades as philosophy", I love how you put "agony" and "sophistry" together to express the relation to each other. I feel this way all the time, and it affects me, my relationships and how I view the world. It's poisonous, quite literally..

I'm not a teen anymore, but not old enough to be a creep. :thumbsup:
I have a short list of people on facebook that I consider worthy talking to, so send me a message if you're interested :)

EDIT: I just realized, my full name is right there  so you'll find me.

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Hi @barn

You made a good point, and I realized what I wrote sounded  shallow. 

@gavstone21

To clarify, I'm not advising to hide yourself. Just be aware of how your giftedness can alienate you, so you can at least consciously choose weather/when to blend in or stick out.  I moved to a new high school in 10th grade, and wasn't able to form new close friendships.  It was not fun at all. If you have even one person who is like you, then that may not be a problem. Hiding yourself stunts your intellectual growth. Values are strongly influenced by our social group, so becoming too invested in people who don't share your values has its danger. Again, I don't know you so I don't know how helpful that is. 

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Hi @Will 001

That's a short answer, it's hard for me to guess 'how my response to you actually landed'(to be honest, I don't know for sure).

3 hours ago, Will 001 said:

You made a good point, and I realized what I wrote sounded  shallow. 

Hmm... 'sounded' implies that I misunderstood what was written/arbitrarily interpreted it differently, or perhaps you didn't say actually what you wanted... not sure now.

I don't think what you had put forward was shallow. I think it was pro 'hide your true self' content, much worse than lacking depth or refinement (in which case perhaps your vocabulary greatly differs and we'd have to level at great lengths... but I doubt it. Still, could be, I was wrong many times before.)

And yet, still there's stuff I'm at odds with again but want to be respectful and not be pushy about things.

Things like

3 hours ago, Will 001 said:

your giftedness can alienate you

and

3 hours ago, Will 001 said:

choose weather/when to blend in or stick out

p. s. (Finding opportunities for socialising 'in your tribe' can be something that is painstakingly laborious for some, I feel for those who hunger...Good thing is that it's trainable. Thankfully.)

Barnsley

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@barn

I agreed that blending in has dangers. Should a prisoner never hold his tongue? You apply discretion in each situation, so it's not a binary choice. Anyway, It's up to him to figure out what's best for him.

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4 hours ago, Will 001 said:

 

@barn

I agreed that blending in has dangers. Should a prisoner never hold his tongue? You apply discretion in each situation, so it's not a binary choice. Anyway, It's up to him to figure out what's best for him.

I can see, this isn't going to be very productive.

Take it easy,

Barnsley

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Thank you all for your continued advise! Sorry it took so long to get back. Last week I typed a long response, and had it ready to send before I had to close the page abruptly and everything was deleted. So I avoided the computer for a week and now here is my responses. Sorry if I sound scatter brained! :)

 

@barn @Will 001  I had many relationships where I "blended in",and I would even talk differently to each person depending on their personality, intelligence, humor, and moral/political beliefs. This was all an attempt to make friends, but like Stefan said in his recent call in show, when you are hiding something in a relationship, when you are not honest; you have to be manipulative. Their only purpose was to provide me dopamine when I made a joke confirming their own political/moral/religious beliefs. No truth, no debt; just appeasement. This type of relationship is not inherently a bad thing. We sacrifice the revelation of our true selfs all the time at stores, work, and on the streets. So my problem was not that I had shallow, manipulation requiring relationships, but that I called them friendships. I would make it seam deeper than it actually was, but all that caused was emptiness and even guilt. I have since changed their title to acquaintances/public school allies. Now I only spend minimal time with them at school, and never pretend it's not the 3 inch pool it actually is. I have few actual friends though, and I am honest with them. They are not the best out there, and most certainly not the most philosophical, but good for my situation. I don't have to feel that alone. I don't feel a need to filter my speech, because the few people I am friends with not only can understand me, but probably would not get resentful if they thought I was smarter. I don't ever talk in a pretentious or incomprehensible way, considering my friends are pretty smart. Thank you both for the dialogue!

 

@Jos van Weesel  I think I will stay in school for the minimal time at least. You are right, there is lots of oppurtunity to probe the system and learn about the nature of our enemy. Although I do respect my anger against the school, I have really not expressed it or even really feel it that often. I just think about how much it sucks to be living not just unexamined lives, but unexamined lies. I always keep my eyes on my future and find peace in that. A quick example of this occurred in the hall, of my crowded school. I guess I got in this guys way, and he punched me on the leg. At first I was infuriated, but then I thought about how much his life in the future is going to suck. Immediately, I was feeling pity not anger. Thank you!

 

@Dylan Lawrence Moore  Just recently I found out that they are offering the running start program where I live! I was all on board until I found out that tuition was $5000 a year. I'll just have to make my time here as productive and fun as possible. 

 

 

 

 

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On 01/28/2018 at 4:18 PM, gavstone21 said:

I had many relationships... [...]

It seems that you understand the gist of what I had in mind to discuss with you. I'm very glad and goooood for you! Kinda motivating too to hear you confirm those angles.

Keep at it, never-ending vigilance will save you many a headaches down the road. Kudos to you!

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On 1/28/2018 at 9:18 AM, gavstone21 said:

my problem was not that I had shallow, manipulation requiring relationships, but that I called them friendships.

Well said. 

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Along with me agreeing with your massive dislike of school/the education system in general, it's pretty cool to see another teenager here!

(Also, while I'm more partial to Gothic works, I am also a fan of poetry. :D:D )

 

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At first I was wondering, how were you able to get on this forum from prison, but then I heard school and then thought, oh yeah.

I always believe that the public school system is an institution where undesirable people are systematically identified and excluded from society.  Nice to know I'm not the only one.

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