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Western Civilization’s Last Stand

The Art of The Argument

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shirgall

The Art of the Argument

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5 hours ago, luxfelix said:

Currently sold out -- Fire up those printing presses! :woot:

Well, you can always read the Kindle version. :)

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hopefully mine arrives soon. so excited!

the concept almost seems like a tautology:

"the solution to people being unwilling to debate is teaching them how to debate properly."

 

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3 hours ago, RamynKing said:

hopefully mine arrives soon. so excited!

the concept almost seems like a tautology:

"the solution to people being unwilling to debate is teaching them how to debate properly."

You might think so, but part of teaching the proper argumentation also teaches the value of proper argumentation.

"Imagine a world where the truth-shredding viciousness of verbal abuse no longer decided the day." and "By loving the world enough to staunchly defend The Argument we can actually create a world we can love."

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12 hours ago, shirgall said:

 

Well, you can always read the Kindle version. :)

Wha... Such a great argument! You must have read it already. :thumbsup:

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People giving 5-star ratings before they've even read any of the book seems kind of like an insult to what Stefan stands for and also is perhaps somewhat ironic.

That said, congratulations on finishing and releasing your book! Looks like it's selling well on Kindle. Currently #66 in paid Kindle.

 

If you found the time to complete this book, does that mean you may be able to find time to finish your parenting book next in the not too distant future? Sure many people would be interested in getting that one as well.

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Got my print copy! The cover is so compelling. The content is very detailed. I am hoping to learn how to take Leftist logical fallacies and turn those into points for winning debates.

 

9 hours ago, thebeardslastcall said:

People giving 5-star ratings before they've even read any of the book seems kind of like an insult to what Stefan stands for and also is perhaps somewhat ironic.

(I didn't do this, but...)

It's activism. I sometimes do it with Youtube videos. If a high rating means good information gets out there to redpill more people, I don't really care if the book isn't an objective 5-stars. Hell, a 3-star read that saves the west, I wish I could give something like that a FRILLION stars.

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Stephan really should try to keep the books in print. Even if they need to be run on demand at a higher price point. I can't stand reading things digitally and I like to highlight and write notes in my books. I would like to buy Art of the Argument paperback and some of his older books like UPB if I can find them anywhere. Preferably from Steph so he can make the monies on them instead of some random free marketer taking advantage of my needs. :P

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38 minutes ago, smarterthanone said:

Stephan really should try to keep the books in print. Even if they need to be run on demand at a higher price point. I can't stand reading things digitally and I like to highlight and write notes in my books. I would like to buy Art of the Argument paperback and some of his older books like UPB if I can find them anywhere. Preferably from Steph so he can make the monies on them instead of some random free marketer taking advantage of my needs. :P

My copy has a printing date of "August 28, 2017" and I received it August 30. That's pretty "print on demand" to me.

Publisher "CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform" which does print-on-demand for Amazon in the US, Canada, and UK...

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On 9/1/2017 at 11:08 AM, shirgall said:

My copy has a printing date of "August 28, 2017" and I received it August 30. That's pretty "print on demand" to me.

Publisher "CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform" which does print-on-demand for Amazon in the US, Canada, and UK...

That all sounds great but then when I go to Amazon why can't I buy a paper copy?

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9 hours ago, smarterthanone said:

That all sounds great but then when I go to Amazon why can't I buy a paper copy?

I don't know. My experience with print on demand is that inventory running out triggers another print run so there will be a delay until the next run can go... but that delay is usually not long unless unexpected demand is present. In the past Amazon used to claim items were in stock when they came from a print on demand supplier, but with predictability from Prime being a selling point, they don't do that anymore.

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Got my copy a few days ago, and I'm only a couple pages in so far. Loving it for the most part, but I did find a disagreement fairly early on.

Early into the book, he defined two distinct types of arguments, truth arguments, and value arguments. He asserts that truth arguments don't matter if we don't value the truth, and value arguments only matter if they're true, so the two aren't inseparable. I have a criticism for this outlook in that I think there may be a bit of a conflation going on. In economics, we're taught that there are two types of statements: positive and normative. Contrary to what many think, positive statements are not reinforcement or compliments, they're just statements of fact. Normative statements are meanwhile statements of how things "should be" rather than how they are. So you can see the parallel between the two pairs of categories; truth arguments are another name for positive statements, and value arguments are another name for normative statements.

My criticism comes with his assertion that the two aren't always separate, because of the aforementioned cyclical "only if we value truth and only if true" validations. Well, my understanding of normative versus positive statements is that you can make a sort of "prescription" using solely positive statements, rather than relying on normative ones. The example given by one of my former professors was him teaching his daughter about the different chemicals in sodas and why she "shouldn't" drink this soda or that. He could have made prescriptive normative claims that it's unhealthy so she shouldn't, but instead he gave her positive factual descriptors about caffeine and sweetness additives whenever she'd ask "what about this soda?" until she came to a drink where he had no facts to give her that would compel her not to drink it. So he in effect conveyed a "as should be" argument, but not by using a value or a normative claim, rather by sticking to facts (as he knew them). It's not that you think drinking soda is unhealthy, it's that you know the following consequences come from the following components of the following drinks, draw your own conclusions. A value argument was completely unnecessary, in spite of "preferable" behavior being advocated.

So perhaps I'm just saying there's a bit of a simplification going on. But then again... isn't that the whole point of the book? It's not for the intellectual titans exclusively, it's for those who love philosophy as well as those just dipping their toes in the philosophical waters. So some simplifications are necessary, I suppose.

The important thing is I am enjoying the read. =)

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Most of the book is about evaluating and countering normative statements, without the vocabulary. I look forward to hearing how you feel when you finish your read!

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