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adamNJ

What is in between Pick Up Artist lifestyle and MGTOW lifestyle?

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Boss    33

Well, I believe a Pickup artist is someone who goes out of their way to try to pick up women while a MGTOW doesn't actively pursue picking up women.(Some MGTOW still let it happen "naturally" while some dont deal with women at all)

I have friends who claim to be these. Me personally tho, I probably wouldnt label myself either. I do my own thing and if I see a woman who seems interesting I will probably pursue her. 

 

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Meister    0

I've been a monk for 13 years now and I only recently discovered the term "mgtow" and "pick up artist".

I've bascially been going my own way all my life.

PUA has absolutely no connection to mgtow and a lot of these self declared mgtows on the internet seem obsessed with what women do and think. They hardly go their own way if you ask me.

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adamNJ    58
On 4/21/2017 at 3:34 PM, Meister said:

I've been a monk for 13 years now and I only recently discovered the term "mgtow" and "pick up artist".

I've bascially been going my own way all my life.

PUA has absolutely no connection to mgtow and a lot of these self declared mgtows on the internet seem obsessed with what women do and think. They hardly go their own way if you ask me.

 

That's interesting, Why did you become a Monk?

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2 hours ago, adamNJ said:

That's interesting, Why did you become a Monk?

I don't think he was being literal (to answer for him).

 

I have noticed some MGTOWs becoming PUAs but I don't think that's the rule.

If I had to divide MGTOW into thirds, they'd pretty much be #1; Hardcore MGTOW: a man who chooses to completely avoid women romantically and perhaps casually as well. Some may be homosexual. #2: Moderate MGTOW: they're aware of how bad a lot of women can be; how the legal system is built against them; and therefore date carefully and make sure not to wander off into traps. I don't call myself a MGTOW but I'd say this is where I am on the specturm. #3: Satyriasis MGTOW: A man who chooses to only date women for sex. Generally not what some could call an Orthodox MGTOW since his sticking his wick in holes freely This ought to contradict the knowledge of dangerous women he'd have--he's endangering himself knowingly and yet claims to be in control when he's not. This kind of MGTOW is the one most easily conflated with Pick-Up-Artist.

 

 

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plato85    16

There's a few different ideas of love in Western philosophy.

Romantic love - This fairy tale idea of love at first sight. In the old days it was used as an excuse for shot gun weddings. It's an ideal pushed by Hollywood as an excuse to justify a culture of casual sex.

Bourgeois love - This was the old worlds Bourgeoisie ideal of matching based on wealth and power.

Western love - "This assumes that personailities are dynamic and flexible things formed largely by experiences in the past. Love and marriage between such personalities are, like everything in the Western outlook, diverse, imperfect, adjustible, creative, cooperative, and changeable. The Western idea assumes that a couple comes together for many reasons (sex, loneliness, common interests, similar background, economic and social cooperation, reciprocal admiration of character traits, and other reasons). It futher assumes that their whole relationship will be a slow process of getting to know each other and mutual adjustment - a process that may never end. The need for constant adjustment shows the Western recognition that nothing, even love is final or perfect. This is also shown by recognition that love and marriage are never total and all-absorbing, that each partner remains an idependent personality with the right to an independent life. (This is found throughout the Western tradiction and goes back to the Christian belief that each person is a separate soul with its own, ultimate separate, fate)." - Quigley (Tragedy and Hope)

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AshW8    0

My impression is that those two communities often clash. PUA's are about going after women actively, at least for sex. While strong MGTOW is all about avoiding even playing the game. I think the main cross over is: what happens when a MGTOW has a woman who throws herself at him? I imagine their tune often changes a little. Sex is a powerful drive.

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Meister    0
7 hours ago, AshW8 said:

My impression is that those two communities often clash. PUA's are about going after women actively, at least for sex. While strong MGTOW is all about avoiding even playing the game. I think the main cross over is: what happens when a MGTOW has a woman who throws herself at him? I imagine their tune often changes a little. Sex is a powerful drive.

If someone claims to be mgtow and then changes his tune because some woman throws herself at him, then he wasn't going his own way in the first place.

I've had women throw themselves at me many times.

I think you are getting confused by losers who are taking their ball and going home because women reject them. Then they claim to be mgtow   and start hating on them.

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Meister    0
On 4/24/2017 at 5:01 AM, adamNJ said:

That's interesting, Why did you become a Monk?

Freedom. I don't see the point of being a socialized wage slave.

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Meister    0
On 4/24/2017 at 6:13 AM, Siegfried von Walheim said:

I don't think he was being literal (to answer for him).

No. Quite literaly. 

I even lived in a monastery for a while.

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Xcalyba    0
On 24/04/2017 at 4:47 PM, plato85 said:

There's a few different ideas of love in Western philosophy.

Western love - "This assumes that personailities are dynamic and flexible things formed largely by experiences in the past. Love and marriage between such personalities are, like everything in the Western outlook, diverse, imperfect, adjustible, creative, cooperative, and changeable. The Western idea assumes that a couple comes together for many reasons (sex, loneliness, common interests, similar background, economic and social cooperation, reciprocal admiration of character traits, and other reasons). It futher assumes that their whole relationship will be a slow process of getting to know each other and mutual adjustment - a process that may never end. The need for constant adjustment shows the Western recognition that nothing, even love is final or perfect. This is also shown by recognition that love and marriage are never total and all-absorbing, that each partner remains an idependent personality with the right to an independent life. (This is found throughout the Western tradiction and goes back to the Christian belief that each person is a separate soul with its own, ultimate separate, fate)." - Quigley (Tragedy and Hope)

 
7

Right on. When I meet a beautiful woman, I honestly avoid any impulses of lust/attraction and just seek a friendship. This works really well, everyone should try it. Slow and steady wins every time. And don't even hint at your attraction. This will be shown through your friendship. And I don't mean friend zone yourself. But friend zone HER. She will love you in no time! :) Be a good friend.

Oh and I think this might be the in between your looking for. Not PUA not MGTOW.

I am really baffled by MGTOW. I love women :D <3

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AccuTron    130

 

8 hours ago, Xcalyba said:

I am really baffled by MGTOW. I love women :D <3

Your icon image is small and blurry, but you look like you are still young, 20-30's.  Make a calendar note for ten years from now and see if you are then still baffled. 

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Meister    0
On 4/25/2017 at 10:32 AM, Xcalyba said:

Right on. When I meet a beautiful woman, I honestly avoid any impulses of lust/attraction and just seek a friendship. This works really well, everyone should try it. Slow and steady wins every time. And don't even hint at your attraction. This will be shown through your friendship. And I don't mean friend zone yourself. But friend zone HER. She will love you in no time! :) Be a good friend.

Oh and I think this might be the in between your looking for. Not PUA not MGTOW.

I am really baffled by MGTOW. I love women :D <3

I love women too. That has nothing to do with mgtow.

Your advice just sounds like basic pickup stuff. mgtow has absolutely nothing to do with getting women to love you.

I don't know how you guys go from "men going their own way" to "how to be behave so women like you".  Those two things aren't even connected in any way.

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Laforge    26

@Meister, why not settle for a woman who completely shares your political ideas?

Objecting to women politically/in the abstract doesn't justify ostracizing all individual women imho. I think Stefan's life provides a good example of this.
Same with racism, i object to the political idea of African men coming to Europe, because it leaves their county in a greater mess. Or they come here to get welfare. Does that position automatically mean i must ostracize every individual African man i see? Even if i can convince him of my position and he actively helps me stop other Africans from coming to Europe?

In evolution it doesn't matter much if you get killed or don't reproduce at all. I think you're smart. The planet could use some more of that. If you don't, others (Muslims/Africans) will take your place.

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Meister    0
14 hours ago, Laforge said:

@Meister, why not settle for a woman who completely shares your political ideas?

Because of the laws.

Once her hypergamy kicks in she can file for divorce, sue me for alimony, take half my shit and my children away. There would be nothing I could do about it. 80% of divorces are initiated by women ....

Procreating and marrying is like playing Russian roulette with only one empty chamber. If you wanna play those odds, then good luck with that. I'll pass.

 

And again: I don't ostracize women. I deal with women daily and some are excellent at their job. I simply don't deal with them romantically. 

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Laforge    26
On 5/1/2017 at 10:54 AM, Meister said:

Because of the laws.

Once her hypergamy kicks in she can file for divorce, sue me for alimony, take half my shit and my children away. There would be nothing I could do about it. 80% of divorces are initiated by women ....

Procreating and marrying is like playing Russian roulette with only one empty chamber. If you wanna play those odds, then good luck with that. I'll pass.

 

And again: I don't ostracize women. I deal with women daily and some are excellent at their job. I simply don't deal with them romantically. 

Very interesting point of view, I feel like I understand you a lot better now. I guess I'm lucky in that respect to live in the EU, the government doesn't steal everything from men when divorced, it just does it all the time haha (not funny).

Maybe pretty subjective preference, but I would recommend: don't allow the law to be such a controlling factor in your life.
- I don't want to be a wage slave for the welfare state & military industrial complex. What's the alternative: be criminal or poor guy?
- I don't want the US government to potentially grab half my stuff when divorced. What's the alternative? Wait forever/gene death?
Additionally, If you're pretty rich and scared of government/female theft, i think there are multiple reasons to hold a significant portion of your financial portfolio in cryptocurrencies or physical gold.

To get even more subjective, I do believe it's actually possible to predict within accurate probability if a women will divorce you in the future. Try to judge how emotionally stable somebody is. Judge the company they keep and how they spend their free time. I think additional signs to alleviate any fears are:
- Does she do competitive sports or thrive in that kind of environment? (yes = good, some sense of built-in morality/fairness/peer reasoning)
- Is she super spontaneous and open with you but very shy/conservative with strangers? Doesn't like going to bars. (sign of more K than r selection, investor type)
- Is slightly less attractive than average or slightly older. (ready to settle down, tired of being used/tired of all the shallow one night stands, feels the fertility clock ticking)
- Little makeup/sexy outfits or only for you. (investor type instead of tester type)

 

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AccuTron    130
23 hours ago, Danske said:

PUA and MGTOW are both expressions of the same dysfunction. Fear of bonding with a woman.

Fear of posting bail bond.

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jimofflorida    11
On 5/4/2017 at 2:06 PM, Danske said:

PUA and MGTOW are both expressions of the same dysfunction. Fear of bonding with a woman.

fear of waking up and realizing that you have worked your %^&^ off for decades and the "other" person gets half of all that even if, by their own admission, they did nothing to help you at all...

yea...I am at the tail end of the divorce process even after waiting years (quite literally) as she tells me "give me another year, it will get better" (I swear men are programmed to just agree to stupid things women say).

Advice to the young, if it is not a partnership that you both give and receive from, get out...fast... because the State says you are "lucky" if you walk away with half of the results of your life's work.

yes, a bit bitter but mostly upset at myself; mentioned things were not right a decade ago and kept falling for the same line. Who falls for "it will be better" 10 years in a row...wait, whats that hat on my on my head say..."King of Blind Believers".

 

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Meister    0
On 5/4/2017 at 10:01 PM, Laforge said:

Very interesting point of view, I feel like I understand you a lot better now. I guess I'm lucky in that respect to live in the EU, the government doesn't steal everything from men when divorced, it just does it all the time haha (not funny).

Maybe pretty subjective preference, but I would recommend: don't allow the law to be such a controlling factor in your life.
- I don't want to be a wage slave for the welfare state & military industrial complex. What's the alternative: be criminal or poor guy?
- I don't want the US government to potentially grab half my stuff when divorced. What's the alternative? Wait forever/gene death?
Additionally, If you're pretty rich and scared of government/female theft, i think there are multiple reasons to hold a significant portion of your financial portfolio in cryptocurrencies or physical gold.

To get even more subjective, I do believe it's actually possible to predict within accurate probability if a women will divorce you in the future. Try to judge how emotionally stable somebody is. Judge the company they keep and how they spend their free time. I think additional signs to alleviate any fears are:
- Does she do competitive sports or thrive in that kind of environment? (yes = good, some sense of built-in morality/fairness/peer reasoning)
- Is she super spontaneous and open with you but very shy/conservative with strangers? Doesn't like going to bars. (sign of more K than r selection, investor type)
- Is slightly less attractive than average or slightly older. (ready to settle down, tired of being used/tired of all the shallow one night stands, feels the fertility clock ticking)
- Little makeup/sexy outfits or only for you. (investor type instead of tester type)

 

I've been mgtow since way before the term was coined and some of those self declared "mgtow"-guys on the internet are truly pathetic.

They keep on complaining about women and what women think and what women want ...

It appears to me they are just losers who can't actually get a woman to want to pairbond with them and now they are whining about women all day.

I just find romantic relationships with women annoying, dangerous, time consuming and ultimately pointless.

I'm my own boss and the master of my life as good as that is possible at the moment. 

Why would I not want to be like that? There is no disadvantage to the mgtow lifestyle.

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To answer the question that TS made; you got pickup which is essentially mass approaching women; boarder line spamming tons of women interest. MGTOW is pretty much cutting off yourself from women as a utility, avoiding marriage/LTR live in girlfriends, and mostly, casual hookups at best. What is in between this is RooshV/Neo-Masculinity. Basically, its tidbits of both worlds, combining the tenants of pickup and MGTOW; maximizing your SMV, resources, getting pussy, and yet, avoiding being a utility as well through state marriage and being roped into monogamy.

I am sort of a purple pill(er). I have not sworn off marriage. I seek it but, my blasted genes will get me into trouble. Options that pursue me are usually not the most ideal; women with shitty aesthetics or party girls, young girls, college girls, single moms, baby rabies, etc. Needless to say, I tread lightly, I don't ever raw dog warrior, and I am very particular about my activity. I fear being cucked so, I am very specific about my expectations of what is and isn't acceptable. I still try my best to just go with the flow and then, be specific about anything I am not pleased with or think is unacceptable.

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On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 8:59 PM, jimofflorida said:

fear of waking up and realizing that you have worked your %^&^ off for decades and the "other" person gets half of all that even if, by their own admission, they did nothing to help you at all...

yea...I am at the tail end of the divorce process even after waiting years (quite literally) as she tells me "give me another year, it will get better" (I swear men are programmed to just agree to stupid things women say).

Advice to the young, if it is not a partnership that you both give and receive from, get out...fast... because the State says you are "lucky" if you walk away with half of the results of your life's work.

yes, a bit bitter but mostly upset at myself; mentioned things were not right a decade ago and kept falling for the same line. Who falls for "it will be better" 10 years in a row...wait, whats that hat on my on my head say..."King of Blind Believers".

 

I am a huge fan of FDR and Stefan. I do think marriage is ideally the route to go especially for children and a better thriving society. GIVEN the entitlement of women, the 'sloot gonna sloot' pandemic of women during SMV, the fallout of baby rabies when the bad boys stop coming around, and some cuck/beta is suppose to raise her babies is just solve everything is a losing feat.

 

Again, I disagree with Stefan here on the push for marriage UNTIL REFORM. Furthermore, I disagree with Stefan with respect to PUA/PICKUP. Sitting back and waiting for a woman to pick me is not a solution nor is waiting for daddy government/welfare state to fail and women to need men again is not an argument. Its also not an argument to deem dating younger as "creepy." I could give a damn what anybody thinks. I will choose youth and build that LTR with a good woman over baby rabies after SMV cratered.

 

Yes, NAWALTs like Lauren Southern or ROAMING Millennial exist but again, so few and far between. It leaves a significant portion of men behind the eight ball.

 

My fucking genes want to spread. Still, as a buddy pointed out to me; for me to procreate; I AM MAKING A FUCKING COPY OF ANOTHER PERSON.

If this woman is a fucking disaster, half of that I don't want mixing with me my genes. I am very conservative and have been that way but, I crave sex and female attention yet, I know how dangerous it can be.

 

The solution I found is YOUTH. Women during SMV, 18-23, unless she is willing to be in a LTR, travel, build a solid foundation with me, THERE IS NOTHING TO DISCUSS OR TALK ABOUT. Women more my own age have kids from different men, have spend their SMV running through dudes, and posting blogs about feminism.

 

 

I am very hopeful that Stefan can provide me a solution; a route and in the meantime, I intend to practice self knowledge; awareness, and free thinking. I want to explore my consciousness but, I am well aware, things are not orderly, it can get chaotic, and I wont be party to this madness. No thanks.

 

Good luck mate.

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jroseland    11

The big difference is that...

PUAs are doers/practitioners

MGTOWS are complainers/theorists

Traveling the world I've met a lot of PUAs and almost categorically they are action oriented

  • They go out multiple times a week to hit on girls
  • They go to the gym
  • They are serious about healthy living, meditation, nutrition, etc
  • They are small business/entrepreneurs

Most PUAs are genuinely cool, smart guys who are very woke the kinds of red pill stuff we discuss here.

 MGTOWs I've almost never met in real life, there's probably some overlap but they probably mostly a bunch of losers. It seems to me that they just rehash a bunch of complaints about women and society. I don't see a lot of original thought and content coming out of the MGTOW-O-Sphere or the Moan-O-Sphere as lot of people call it.

I don't want to completely discount MGTOWS, their complaints are legitimate but are MGTOWs really making any difference in this cultural war? By definition aren't they kind of like deserters?

Being an active PUA is the intelligent response to the sexual marketplace dynamics we face.

 

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AccuTron    130

 

On 9/10/2017 at 6:15 AM, jroseland said:

The big difference is that...

PUAs are doers/practitioners

MGTOWS are complainers/theorists

>>>theorists, like what we do on this web site???  Ya' mean, like "thinking"?  Increasing understanding for better informed actions?

 

Traveling the world I've met a lot of PUAs and almost categorically they are action oriented

  • They go out multiple times a week to hit on girls
  • They go to the gym
  • They are serious about healthy living, meditation, nutrition, etc
  • They are small business/entrepreneurs

>>> Except for #1, you just described many MGTOW.  Do I understand by your words that you've been traveling the world while stuffing yourself with as many international cocks as you can?  It sounds like that.

 

Most PUAs are genuinely cool, smart guys who are very woke the kinds of red pill stuff we discuss here.

>>> Woke is past tense of wookie?  Anyway, logic here, if some PUA's are informed, that in no way says that MGTOW aren't.  That sentence could easily remove PUA and insert MGTOW.

 

MGTOWs I've almost never met in real life, there's probably some overlap but they probably mostly a bunch of losers. It seems to me that they just rehash a bunch of complaints about women and society. I don't see a lot of original thought and content coming out of the MGTOW-O-Sphere or the Moan-O-Sphere as lot of people call it.

>>>Yeah, key moment here; you admit you don't know what you're talking about.  I'm guessing you are female:  you don't know what you are talking about, you come to conclusions anyway, the conclusion is shaming.  Rehashing complaints might really be that NEW complaints are constantly appearing, thanks to very many poorly behaved women.  Which you don't even mention.  Yeah, it's a girl.  I am CONSTANTLY hearing original thought, especially from AngryMGTOW.

 

I don't want to completely discount MGTOWS, their complaints are legitimate but are MGTOWs really making any difference in this cultural war? By definition aren't they kind of like deserters?

>>>  Ah, the complaints are legit, yet a little while ago, it was whining.  Yeah.  Many individuals making major life changes will result in aggregate change.  We are nurturing culture with more honesty and less lying.  That will exclude most women.  People who jump from a burning ship, to save their lives for future voyages, are not deserters. 

 

Being an active PUA is the intelligent response to the sexual marketplace dynamics we face.

>>>  That could be restated as "we girls need lots of loose cocks to ride."  Yeah, all those girls waving their pussies around on sticks with a "BUY/RENT/FREE" sign, they are much better off.  Thank you Nola Girl for her words:  "American women are whores."  So PUA are aiding cultural evolution by further stretching out some pussies being used like disposable product from a sale bin?  American women these days are rife with sexual disease; PUA's will at some level increase this, not to mention risk badly damaging their own lives; even the worry is not mentally healthy.  Did somebody mention pregnancy?  I find no trace of intelligent.  The women are treated, even by themselves, like toss-away twat.  Nola Girl also spoke to that, how these women are one night stands, yet think they are still deserving a wedding ring some day.  No, they are whores and trash, and will stay that way.  The men know it, the women with plugged in brains know it.

 

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I want to make a video about MGTOW in the future, but I'll share my biggest objections with the 'movement'.

MGTOW state statistics that ? % of women (file for, and) divorce their husbands, taking half of their wealth, taking the kids, etc. etc. and are completely evil.

Although I agree that a lot of women are like this, MGTOW fails to realize that these statistics are not random chnce. What do I mean with that? Well, when you get to know a woman and she seems great, but in the end will divorce you and take your shit, then she wasn't great from the start. You choose the partner and are responsible for that choice. When you want to get into a relationship/marriage, you don't get a random partner assigned and just have to wait and see what happens. This is how MGTOW seems to think of relationships.

All it does is demonstrate that MGTOW are not deep-thinkers/lovers and only have superficial relationships where it is kind of random what women they will end up with, because they don't have high standards for what they choice, but then in the end blame women for their own choice.

When I met my partner we talked about everything that was important to us before we decided to be in a committed relationship. We have very strong values and high standards for each other and others. We agree on almost everything (other than preferences, like food, movies, music, the less important stuff) and there are no surprises in our relationship because we know so much about each other. I don't know the statistics, and I can't bother looking them up (you're free to tell me and/or correct me before addressing my message) but let's assume that 1/3rd of women are the kind of woman that we're talking about, the ones that MGTOW are 'avoiding'. Are you (MGTOW) really trying to tell me that my own relationship has a 33% chance of failing, and that my wife will abandon me and become this evil witch that you speak of? Yeah, don't think so...

Besides that, MGTOW praise casual sex and short-term dating, as long as it doesn't become serious. This also shows their extreme lack of values and standards for women and for themselves in the like. 

I don't know where their flawed thinking comes from, but I affirm that it's 'mommy issues' that are repressed and not dealt with at all and results in their fear/hatred of women.

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