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Siegfried von Walheim

How FDR Got Me My First Job (And Helped Decide My Career Path)!!

Good Sunday Afternoon, Fellow FDR Comrades for Anarcho-Capitalism, Peaceful Parenting, Rationality, and Stefan Molyneux Please Notice Me Senpai!  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:

 

 

Since I've noticed a few other listeners/forum-ers  have posted similar topics about how helpful FDR and Stefan-senpai has been, I decided it was high time I shared my experience (from after graduating high school) and how Stefpai was instrumental in my success.

 

 

During the Summer and Autumn of 2016, I had greatly pondered whether or not to go to college.

 

You see, I want to be a novelist. That means writing books and convincing someone I'm worth his time and my product is worth selling. What does college have to do with that?

 

"Maybe the piece of paper would magically grant me opportunities"...

 

Or so I thought, until I watched what Stefpai had to say to similar ex-kids my age. 

 

I decided I'd be wasting time and money (and I mean lots of time and money!) if I decided to get a "Liberal" Arts Degree and risking my sanity if I purposely put myself in an environment where everyone (or at least the majority) think in ways I am diametrically opposed and probably even want me dead for the crime of being a heterosexual White male with Rightist politics. 

 

And so from late December to mid January, I followed Stefpai's wisdom of actually entering the Free(ish) Market I claimed to uphold and defend and also beat the temptation of living my youth as a welfare parasite. 

 

In six weeks, along a schedule like this: Mondays; Talk to employers/manager's on the phone I've met or yet to meet; Wednesdays; Spend from noon to 6:00 pm knocking on every store from mom-and-pop's to smoking dens (cough cough) and Target to find a job (or at least seduce the employer into expediting my hiring).

Thursdays; Review with my therapist (which I got on the advice of the Stefpai) what I was doing and how I'm doing it; Saturdays; Plan out what I'd be doing the following week. 

 

 

Eventually, after being to literally 90-something shops (with some repeats where I felt a little more time and persistence could get me a job) my resume was finally reciprocated by a  young and wise Pakistani business owner who wanted someone to train and teach as a protege so he could expand his already successful enterprise.

 

What was this enterprise? I had no idea. I forgot I even I submitted my resume to him.

 

However, the morning after the call I followed Stefpai's business mindset of remembering it was the customer whose weight sustains the business, and respecting the role of my future (and now current) employer whose own energies had turned a dusty and empty space into a workshop full of technical gadgets I couldn't even begin to name.

 

I knew nothing of technology (beyond vidya games) or how to repair them (I never break them), let alone how to do web designing, security, or finances.

 

And yet, the man hired me. I knew he would too. When asked the loaded questions of "what would you do in X scenario" I gave answers that both my employer and his financial partner liked, which seemed to greatly compensate for my non-existent work history or experience in tech.

 

And by God was this an opportunity; I went, nearly overnight, from parasite to workingman.

 

However, this was just the beginning.

 

I spent the last few weeks in training (unpaid but free, 30 hours a week) and now with only one week left I'm confidant in saying I now know what an LCD is and how to unscrew the multitude of tiny screws on iPhone 6S + Gorilla Voodoo Machine and finally secure not just my first job but something that could lead to a pretty stable and financially secure groove from which I can devote myself to my true career as a novelist.

 

And so, with the security of employment and the persistence that promises Victory,  this young bachelor's story begins.

 

Now I just have to put in the work and learn what I can, seeing how far I can go while doing what I love (writing) so that once that's done I can start again the process of persistence and tenacity (redundant emphasis, I know) to actually sell what I've spent 6 years working on since I was 12.

 

That was my FDR helping IRL for business and careers story, what about YOU?  :teehee:

 

 

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ye, I can relate

 

I was on welfare for pretty much all my adult life. Hate work, hated the idea of work, hated the people that wanted me to work. Work was simply being exploited by someone, doing something you didnt want to do, every day, for most of your life, until you died. It seemed crazy to me that, just in order to have a house and food, you had to spend 8 hours of your day doing dull and pointless tasks. I had multiple failed degree attempts behind me, years of depression.

 

When I found FDR, I went into therapy. Listened to hundreds of podcasts and call in shows. Gradually learned that work didnt have to be like that. It could be a mutual exchange of value. You could bring value to a company, and they could reward you for it. A chance came up for a data analyst ( not exactly something I was interested in, but it was working in IT and with computers, so it was somewhat appealing), the interviewer seemed interested in the skills I could offer, and I think I actually gave an ok interview, but in the end, I didnt get the job. The job came up again a few months later, I applied again, and somehow ended up with the job. While the job was initially as a data analyst ( a glorified data entry and data checking job), I showed that I could be useful in automating tasks and using my programming skills to develop software for use in data analysis. So I am now pretty much a full time software developer, and enjoying it. 

 

I was really lucky to find, in pretty much my first job, a boss that could recognise that I had something to offer, and to take a chance on it. And if it was a job washing dishes, I would probably still think the same about work in general. But it can happen that even without any previous work experience, if you go in with the idea of giving value, and not be scared to try things out, to put forward ideas, and to work outside what you were taken on for, that you can be surprised.

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ye, I can relate

 

I was on welfare for pretty much all my adult life. Hate work, hated the idea of work, hated the people that wanted me to work. Work was simply being exploited by someone, doing something you didnt want to do, every day, for most of your life, until you died. It seemed crazy to me that, just in order to have a house and food, you had to spend 8 hours of your day doing dull and pointless tasks. I had multiple failed degree attempts behind me, years of depression.

 

When I found FDR, I went into therapy. Listened to hundreds of podcasts and call in shows. Gradually learned that work didnt have to be like that. It could be a mutual exchange of value. You could bring value to a company, and they could reward you for it. A chance came up for a data analyst ( not exactly something I was interested in, but it was working in IT and with computers, so it was somewhat appealing), the interviewer seemed interested in the skills I could offer, and I think I actually gave an ok interview, but in the end, I didnt get the job. The job came up again a few months later, I applied again, and somehow ended up with the job. While the job was initially as a data analyst ( a glorified data entry and data checking job), I showed that I could be useful in automating tasks and using my programming skills to develop software for use in data analysis. So I am now pretty much a full time software developer, and enjoying it. 

 

I was really lucky to find, in pretty much my first job, a boss that could recognise that I had something to offer, and to take a chance on it. And if it was a job washing dishes, I would probably still think the same about work in general. But it can happen that even without any previous work experience, if you go in with the idea of giving value, and not be scared to try things out, to put forward ideas, and to work outside what you were taken on for, that you can be surprised.

If you could compress the years you spent with that mindset and thought process into 4 years, I'd say I could relate very much so.

 

Before I converted to an Anarcho-Capitalist, I was a Fascist (i.e. a Socialist and a Nationalist), and before that a Communist (same thing but change race to class).

 

My political beliefs greatly affected what I wanted to do with my life as well as the way I looked at it. Back when I was a Communist, I literally planned to usurp the democracy as a Communist Party leader in the same lens as Lenin or Trotsky. Eventually (as I matured in High School) I mellowed out and started wondering why I was so attracted to authoritarian father-like figures and also the dream of a utopia where everyone lives in a luxury Fallout-style vault with their lives penned away like a script for a movie.

 

Therapy helped with that, and also as I became my critical and cynical I became more humble to the face of competence and work, as well as more and more attracted to the power of the free market rather than the false power of the dictatorial Zeitgeist Project-esque Communist world I wanted to build. 

 

The idea of building a family and securing a foundation for future generations of my descendants to succeed and grow both internally and materially became a new fixation and dream for me, as compared to the false immortality of a vain old god. 

 

My religious views also shifted, from becoming an atheist and violently anti-religion (when I was a Freshman in High School) to an agnostic appreciative of religion (mid High-School) to someone who is somewhat Catholic but generally a secularist along the U.P.B. lines.

 

And if it wasn't for FDR or my willingness to evolve, my desire to work and ability to inspire myself and those around me into working wouldn't have happened. Rather than the enthusiasm I gave my boss, I would have given him cynicism and dryness.  I wouldn't have gotten the job, and most likely would have just lived a self-fulfilling prophesy to repeat my father's own history.

 

The little things that Stefan-senpai does has had such a huge impact in my personal transformation that as soon as I'm financially secure, I want to donate to this god of a man and let him know materially that there is one more person committed to truth and virtue in the face of the abyss of cynicism and tolerant decay.

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Wow! Great job guys!

Did any particular podcasts encourage you more than any others? Did any have lots of actionable advice?

I am a mechanical engineer, graduated a few years ago, ecstatic to join the workplace and make my mark. But I didn't know how to get a job. I would occasionally get close. But no job.

I just went to a training course, sat beside some ex-cons and ex-junkies, learning how to apply for work. I have a slightly taller hill to climb after being out of school for so long, but I hope to get that job soon.

I basically spend most of my time now driving for Uber and I take any temporary work that would pay more. I worked last winter in a warehouse. I do handy work, catering, tutoring and try to keep paying my bills.

The only constant in this world is "This too shall pass."

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On 2/5/2017 at 2:08 PM, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Stefpai 

Kek

 

I've been having the opposite problem. Fdr is making my life much more difficult. Been having a low key existential crisis. 

All the first things that come to mind that I'd be good at, enjoy, and make a decent wage doing are immoral: Lawyer, politician, soldier, investment banker, and teacher. 

All the secondary things I be good at, enjoy, and make a decent wage doing require a high degree of schooling and I'm not sure if I'd want to do any of them enough to go through the gauntlet that is the modern university: anything medical related. 

And all the tertiary things seem like they can only fulfill 2 of the 3 prerequisites (be good at, enjoy, and make a decent wage) at any given time: trades or unskilled work. 

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1 hour ago, mgggb said:

 

I've been having the opposite problem. Fdr is making my life much more difficult. Been having a low key existential crisis. 

All the first things that come to mind that I'd be good at, enjoy, and make a decent wage doing are immoral: Lawyer, politician, soldier, investment banker, and teacher. 

I don't being a Lawyer has to be immoral however I don't know how picky a lawyer can be about clients and cases. I wouldn't dismiss that right off. 

As for politician...well, if you want to be the unicorn of the establishment it probably won't pay very well but...if you succeed you could become a hero for the history books. I wouldn't throw out this idea because not every politician is a blood sucking parasite and if you were to actually be one of the few AnCap or otherwise Cap politicians in the system you'd be advancing our cause politically in ways that may very well pay off in the long run.

As a soldier you'd most likely just do what you're told. It's possible to be a career officer and attempt to get a high rank, but at what cost? However if you actually manage to become a general then perhaps you could change the direction our or your country is going in, potentially by force since you'd have an army under your thumb (especially if you played your cards right and won that soldier loyalty).

Banker: These guys are the bedrock of modern capitalism. Sure some are Wall Street shysters but others are responsible for every entrepreneur being able to make their dreams come true because bankers were able and willing to invest in them. If you actually like this field, I'd recommend giving it serious attention. 

Teacher: Unless you want to do it on the internet you may as well shoot yourself because government education as a woke person is probably as hell for the teacher as it is for the captive audience of children. Eliminate this one.

1 hour ago, mgggb said:

All the secondary things I be good at, enjoy, and make a decent wage doing require a high degree of schooling and I'm not sure if I'd want to do any of them enough to go through the gauntlet that is the modern university: anything medical related. 

If you need a piece of paper to get anything for legal reasons, grin and bear it and try to find a college that's as much about the subject and as little about bullshit as possible. My aim is to be a novelist therefore I didn't/don't have to get a degree or otherwise waste my time in "higher learning", however some of what you want to be may legally require it in one way or another, and I wouldn't give up on a good dream because high school got extended for another 4 or so years.

 

 

1 hour ago, mgggb said:

And all the tertiary things seem like they can only fulfill 2 of the 3 prerequisites (be good at, enjoy, and make a decent wage) at any given time: trades or unskilled work. 

Well I can tell you my job that I got out of a hundred locations turned out to be pretty shady as I was paid next to nothing and under minimum wage, with taxes. 

I made the smart decision to make money using my writing skills, as there's plenty of ways a guy like me can make money in the here and now; freelance writing being the biggest and easiest non-creative example of it.

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2 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

I don't being a Lawyer has to be immoral however I don't know how picky a lawyer can be about clients and cases. I wouldn't dismiss that right off. 

As for politician...well, if you want to be the unicorn of the establishment it probably won't pay very well but...if you succeed you could become a hero for the history books. I wouldn't throw out this idea because not every politician is a blood sucking parasite and if you were to actually be one of the few AnCap or otherwise Cap politicians in the system you'd be advancing our cause politically in ways that may very well pay off in the long run.

As a soldier you'd most likely just do what you're told. It's possible to be a career officer and attempt to get a high rank, but at what cost? However if you actually manage to become a general then perhaps you could change the direction our or your country is going in, potentially by force since you'd have an army under your thumb (especially if you played your cards right and won that soldier loyalty).

Banker: These guys are the bedrock of modern capitalism. Sure some are Wall Street shysters but others are responsible for every entrepreneur being able to make their dreams come true because bankers were able and willing to invest in them. If you actually like this field, I'd recommend giving it serious attention. 

Teacher: Unless you want to do it on the internet you may as well shoot yourself because government education as a woke person is probably as hell for the teacher as it is for the captive audience of children. Eliminate this one.

They're all immoral specifically because of their incestuous relationship with government. Lawyers only exist because of the state and finance is heavily heavily regulated, and the stock market is artificially buoyed with people's savings specifically to avoid inflation. I'll have no part in it. 

 

2 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

If you need a piece of paper to get anything for legal reasons, grin and bear it and try to find a college that's as much about the subject and as little about bullshit as possible. My aim is to be a novelist therefore I didn't/don't have to get a degree or otherwise waste my time in "higher learning", however some of what you want to be may legally require it in one way or another, and I wouldn't give up on a good dream because high school got extended for another 4 or so years.

I think I'll have no choice. I absolutely hated high school but psychological topics are one of the few things that can actually hold my attention. 

 

2 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Well I can tell you my job that I got out of a hundred locations turned out to be pretty shady as I was paid next to nothing and under minimum wage, with taxes. 

I made the smart decision to make money using my writing skills, as there's plenty of ways a guy like me can make money in the here and now; freelance writing being the biggest and easiest non-creative example of it.

If you are able to make money from writing, I envy you. Do you do freelance for a company? 

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1 hour ago, mgggb said:

They're all immoral specifically because of their incestuous relationship with government. Lawyers only exist because of the state and finance is heavily heavily regulated, and the stock market is artificially buoyed with people's savings specifically to avoid inflation. I'll have no part in it. 

Given the system you're in, you must be willing to conform. I gave alternative ways at looking at most of them, and think you'd benefit from seeing them the way I do. While some are less sinister than others, they are all necessary parts so long as we have a government. 

 

 

Quote

I think I'll have no choice. I absolutely hated high school but psychological topics are one of the few things that can actually hold my attention. 

I'm assuming you're around my age (18-20)? Before you do anything you have find something you can be passionate about. If you don't have a passion than no job will be well-paying.

 

Quote

If you are able to make money from writing, I envy you. Do you do freelance for a company? 

I will forward you to WritingRevolt.com for more on how I got started, but in short it's a lot of cold emailing and when the fish bites...well, that's the easy part. 

Thanks to saving up, I'm able to focus more exclusively on creative writing, which is the thing I'm actually passionate about and dedicate myself to regularly.

I'm NOT saying be a writer, but I am saying work isn't really "work" if it's something you're passionate about or heavily interested in.

Which is why I'm saying to reconsider, especially banking and lawyering since both are essential with or without a state. After all there will be courts in anarchy, even if they're arranged different people will still be needed to defend the case or pursue the case of others. And banking is a underrated blessing to all healthy economies. While it has been heavily corrupted and abused by the government it is still an essential part of capitalism, even a mixed-market pseudo-capitalism. 

Edited by Siegfried von Walheim
Embarrassing typo. Added "NOT" because...I meant that in the first palce.
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45 minutes ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

 

 

45 minutes ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

 

 

45 minutes ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

I'm assuming you're around my age (18-20)? Before you do anything you have find something you can be passionate about. If you don't have a passion than no job will be well-paying.

21. Definitely true. 

45 minutes ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

I will forward you to WritingRevolt.com for more on how I got started, but in short it's a lot of cold emailing and when the fish bites...well, that's the easy part. 

Thanks to saving up, I'm able to focus more exclusively on creative writing, which is the thing I'm actually passionate about and dedicate myself to regularly.

I'm saying be a writer, but I am saying work isn't really "work" if it's something you're passionate about or heavily interested in.

I appreciate it and will look into it. 

 

45 minutes ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Given the system you're in, you must be willing to conform. I gave alternative ways at looking at most of them, and think you'd benefit from seeing them the way I do. While some are less sinister than others, they are all necessary parts so long as we have a government. 

 

Which is why I'm saying to reconsider, especially banking and lawyering since both are essential with or without a state. After all there will be courts in anarchy, even if they're arranged different people will still be needed to defend the case or pursue the case of others. And banking is a underrated blessing to all healthy economies. While it has been heavily corrupted and abused by the government it is still an essential part of capitalism, even a mixed-market pseudo-capitalism. 

Fair enough, but I don't think this Genie can be put back in the bottle. By that same token, might as well go work for the irs, no? If I define something as evil, or perpetuating evil then how can I possibly take part in it with a clean conscience? 

I'm sure there'd be some kind of system in place for confining murderers and rapists in ancapistan but that doesn't mean I should become a prison guard today. 

Likewise, lawyers and banking today have nothing to do with what it could be in a system free from coercion. Those who thrive now are those that thrive under the current circumstances. 

Banking is especially pernicious because it is predicated on fractional reserve lending and the losses are socialized while profits are privatized.  

I doubt I could look at myself in the mirror and say "yes, I am a banker, I do a lot of good in the world." 

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17 minutes ago, mgggb said:

 

21. Definitely true. 

I appreciate it and will look into it. 

I edited that line to say "I'm NOT saying be a writer" because, well, unless that's been your childhood passion and pastime like it was mine, you wouldn't really benefit from it.

 

 

17 minutes ago, mgggb said:

Fair enough, but I don't think this Genie can be put back in the bottle. By that same token, might as well go work for the irs, no? If I define something as evil, or perpetuating evil then how can I possibly take part in it with a clean conscience? 

That's the equivalent in saying German farmers shouldn't be farmers in WWII because they're feeding Nazis. Being a lawyer today may (and if you have no standards for clients, will) involve defending unsavory individuals and picking apart a byzantine legal system, but it's not like you can't help people and make money doing so. Similarly with banking and investing. Especially investing. 

 

 

17 minutes ago, mgggb said:

I'm sure there'd be some kind of system in place for confining murderers and rapists in ancapistan but that doesn't mean I should become a prison guard today. 

Well that place (ought) to be a ditch, prisons shouldn't really hold many people because either the crime is so heinous that wasting other people's money feeding them is a crime of morality, or the crime is so minor it ought to just be a fine and that's it. 

But even with that analogy it's not like modern prison guards are terrible people (although I'm sure many are given the nature of the job and the toxicity of the environment) given they're serving a just cause, even if the system is set up to profit government lapdogs rather than clean the streets in any permanent sense.

 

17 minutes ago, mgggb said:

Likewise, lawyers and banking today have nothing to do with what it could be in a system free from coercion. Those who thrive now are those that thrive under the current circumstances. 

That could be said of anyone from any job. I, a novelist, profit off of the present hunger for something remotely right-wing or remotely individualistic. There aren't many modern books about familial strength without serious dysfunctionality, nor many modern books portraying capitalism positively, nor many focusing on individualism and accountability fairly and therefore there is a market waiting to be tapped by the right guy.

That's me thriving under current circumstances. If Stefanism were mainstream than Stefan-inspired texts would be a dime a dozen. Now if someone (i.e. me) were to skillfully write novels incorperating peaceful parenting, capitalism in a positive light, RTR, etc. that someone could start a new modern market and make big bucks off of the current circumstances.

Just wanted to emphasize that all profit is based on circumstance, like a farmer makes a big buck feeding the isolated village without access to a constant source of food. 

 

17 minutes ago, mgggb said:

Banking is especially pernicious because it is predicated on fractional reserve lending and the losses are socialized while profits are privatized.  

Compared to outright Communism, is that a bad thing? Yeah, I'd say in general it's shitty but compared to what? What's wrong with being a guy who profits with other guys for investing in new businesses ? The government will steal money from the people regardless, socializing the costs is just one way of blowing the stolen money that happens to be a short-term benefit. Until it collapses and real banks are able to operate, this is the best we have under the system we live in. 

 

17 minutes ago, mgggb said:

I doubt I could look at myself in the mirror and say "yes, I am a banker, I do a lot of good in the world." 

Even modern banks are a huge help to the innovative and entrepreneurial classes that would otherwise have great difficulty in accumulating the capital necessary to set up and sustain a business. 

Banks are literally the reason why America managed to grow from regional power to superpower in less than fifty years. While they're certainly help fund the warfare-welfare state they are also helping the producers, the good and worthy people who dedicate themselves to creation, build that which drives our society forward materially and sometimes even morally. Having a hand in that weave is like being a god among men. You shouldn't turn your nose at something so crucial to human development just because the power is also misused.

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2 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

That's the equivalent in saying German farmers shouldn't be farmers in WWII because they're feeding Nazis. Being a lawyer today may (and if you have no standards for clients, will) involve defending unsavory individuals and picking apart a byzantine legal system, but it's not like you can't help people and make money doing so. Similarly with banking and investing. Especially investing. 

No, the farmers are presumably under some kind of compulsion to continue farming. A better example would be a concentration camp guard. Sure maybe you could be a "good" guard at the end of the day you are serving an evil system. I don't recognize the moral authority of the law so why should I spend all my time entangled in it? 

 

2 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

But even with that analogy it's not like modern prison guards are terrible people (although I'm sure many are given the nature of the job and the toxicity of the environment) given they're serving a just cause, even if the system is set up to profit government lapdogs rather than clean the streets in any permanent sense.

Seeing that the vast majority of people in prisons are there for victimless drug crimes I'd say that there is no such thing as a good prison guard in the same way there's no such thing as a good concentration camp guard.

 

2 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

That could be said of anyone from any job. I, a novelist, profit off of the present hunger for something remotely right-wing or remotely individualistic. There aren't many modern books about familial strength without serious dysfunctionality, nor many modern books portraying capitalism positively, nor many focusing on individualism and accountability fairly and therefore there is a market waiting to be tapped by the right guy.

That's me thriving under current circumstances. If Stefanism were mainstream than Stefan-inspired texts would be a dime a dozen. Now if someone (i.e. me) were to skillfully write novels incorperating peaceful parenting, capitalism in a positive light, RTR, etc. that someone could start a new modern market and make big bucks off of the current circumstances.

Yes but what matters is the circumstances themselves. Current circumstances in regards to banking and lawyering is that the government creates a market for their services at the end of a gun. Very few would need at lawyer if the laws weren't 3 billion pages of self referential jargon. Very few would put their money in the stock market or a bank if inflation wasn't eating away their savings. No one is forcing people to buy your writing, and that's the difference.  

 

2 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

 Compared to outright Communism, is that a bad thing? Yeah, I'd say in general it's shitty but compared to what? What's wrong with being a guy who profits with other guys for investing in new businesses ? The government will steal money from the people regardless, socializing the costs is just one way of blowing the stolen money that happens to be a short-term benefit. Until it collapses and real banks are able to operate, this is the best we have under the system we live in. 

And compared to getting shot, getting stabbed is great. 

What's wrong with it is that it will be my children and grandchildren who have to pay the tab with interest if I decide to make a quick buck now. Just because the government is robbing people doesn't mean I should tacitly condone it. Who cares if it's the best we have, that doesn't mean I should be a party to it. 

2 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

 Banks are literally the reason why America managed to grow from regional power to superpower in less than fifty years. 

This is not a good thing. 

 

2 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

While they're certainly help fund the warfare-welfare state they are also helping the producers, the good and worthy people who dedicate themselves to creation, build that which drives our society forward materially and sometimes even morally. Having a hand in that weave is like being a god among men. You shouldn't turn your nose at something so crucial to human development just because the power is also misused.

I don't care about the good things bankers do. They are more than outweighed by the bad. 

If someone spends 12 seconds of their life murdering and 80 years not murdering, which part are they better characterized by? 

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1 hour ago, mgggb said:

No, the farmers are presumably under some kind of compulsion to continue farming. A better example would be a concentration camp guard. Sure maybe you could be a "good" guard at the end of the day you are serving an evil system. I don't recognize the moral authority of the law so why should I spend all my time entangled in it? 

Analogies may help illustrate a point but, since I'm going drop this gun, they're not an argument.

Banking is not being a concentration camp guard. Banking is managing money other people choose to spend, and while the government is evil at its core, I don't see the harm in profiting off of it while it lasts in order to hypothetically build the escape hatch and the fallout shelter for your progeny for when the inevitable collapse occurs.

When you make the decision to stop living for yourself, you really begin to care less for you same-generation peers or future-generation people, but rather mainly if not exclusively for your unborn children. If I knew how to bank and had a passion for it, I'd most definitely do it even as a Wall Street Shark because I know that's the group of people with escape hatches and metaphorical bomb shelters prepared for when the plebs and the bankrupt patricians go toe to toe in the streets.

 

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Seeing that the vast majority of people in prisons are there for victimless drug crimes I'd say that there is no such thing as a good prison guard in the same way there's no such thing as a good concentration camp guard.

While the crime itself isn't really a moral crime, the people who commit them often commit actual crimes (robbery, murder, etc.) in order to get their drugs. Therefore, to stretch the analogy, most if not everyone in your concentration camp actually deserves to be in it.

 

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Yes but what matters is the circumstances themselves. Current circumstances in regards to banking and lawyering is that the government creates a market for their services at the end of a gun. Very few would need at lawyer if the laws weren't 3 billion pages of self referential jargon. Very few would put their money in the stock market or a bank if inflation wasn't eating away their savings. No one is forcing people to buy your writing, and that's the difference.  

Nobody's forcing anyone to invest in stocks either. It's just smarter because the common currency is becoming increasingly worthless in the system we live in, and likewise having a good job as a banker which helps create wondrous inventions happens to be a great way to "escape" the trap of the plebs and patricians and enable you to have a personal escape hatch.

 

 

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And compared to getting shot, getting stabbed is great. 

Yeah, pretty much. Better to get cancer at 80 than die from the plague at 20, and before Capitalism that was life. And while the corruption of modern banking came after the "good era" of capitalism, it is still preferable to get cancer at 60 than the plague at 20.

 

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What's wrong with it is that it will be my children and grandchildren who have to pay the tab with interest if I decide to make a quick buck now. Just because the government is robbing people doesn't mean I should tacitly condone it. Who cares if it's the best we have, that doesn't mean I should be a party to it. 

It does matter because placing yourself in the best possible position to survive catastrophe and ensure your own children are the ones who are well-fed and taken care of when disaster strikes is the most sacred objective of intelligent people.

And banking, even modern banking, isn't that bad since otherwise your neighbor's descendants would be sent off to forced labor anyway. Kekistan hasn't been built yet, and it's not going to get built in Galt's Gulch but rather by taking advantage of the current system to position yourself as well as possible.

 

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This is not a good thing. 

Compared to keeping our noses out of everyone's business and being satisfied with the fact we were (are?) impenetrable would be best, but being the alpha wolf is still miles greater than being a beta let alone the omega. 

Relative to being another nation's slave we enslave other nations. It'd be better if we stopped enslaving people but at least we aren't getting enslaved (although if you stretch the metaphor, we most likely will be eventually unless we get out of here).

 

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I don't care about the good things bankers do. They are more than outweighed by the bad. 

No, they aren't. Compare it to being in North Korea or Arabia and you'd realize our poison is decent because it comes with perks.

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If someone spends 12 seconds of their life murdering and 80 years not murdering, which part are they better characterized by? 

I guess that depends on when he murdered and who, doesn't it?

However that's an even more fallacious analogy because being a modern banker is more like being an anonymous tax collector that's hated in general but unknown in particular.  

Edited by Siegfried von Walheim
Typos need fixing.
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13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Analogies may help illustrate a point but, since I'm going drop this gun, they're not an argument.

Banking is not being a concentration camp guard. Banking is managing money other people choose to spend, and while the government is evil at its core, I don't see the harm in profiting off of it while it lasts in order to hypothetically build the escape hatch and the fallout shelter for your progeny for when the inevitable collapse occurs.

Okay, here's a few syllogisms. 

1. The state is predicated on the initiation of force. 

2. The initiation of force is evil. 

3. Therefore the state is an evil institution. 

 

1. The state is an evil institution. 

2. Bankers profit based on people's response to government incentives. 

3. Therefore bankers profit from an evil institution. 

 

1. The state is an evil institution. 

2. Lawyers give justifications to the legitimacy of state power. 

3. Therefore lawyers justify an evil institution. 


 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

 When you make the decision to stop living for yourself, you really begin to care less for you same-generation peers or future-generation people, but rather mainly if not exclusively for your unborn children. If I knew how to bank and had a passion for it, I'd most definitely do it even as a Wall Street Shark because I know that's the group of people with escape hatches and metaphorical bomb shelters prepared for when the plebs and the bankrupt patricians go toe to toe in the streets.

1. My children will have to live in the world that I'm affecting. 

2. Choosing to be a banker/lawyer will affect the world negatively in the long term. 

3. Therefore choosing to be a banker/lawyer is a violation of the nap of my future children.

There are many other ways to make money and I'd also rather raise quality children than save up a lot of money to prepare for the fallout of a collapse that I'd be helping to orchestrate. Stock brokers aren't known for raising quality children, because of the demands of the job they end up being neglected, also a violation of the nap. 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Nobody's forcing anyone to invest in stocks either. It's just smarter because the common currency is becoming increasingly worthless in the system we live in, and likewise having a good job as a banker which helps create wondrous inventions happens to be a great way to "escape" the trap of the plebs and patricians and enable you to have a personal escape hatch. 

Yes people are. They are being incentivized with tax programs like iras, 401ks, and inflation. 

And with this escape hatch talk, there's not going to be aglobal shtf scenario. Things will get bad in some places for a certain amount of time before normalizing. And those most effected will be those who dont have some kind of contingency in place. 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Yeah, pretty much. Better to get cancer at 80 than die from the plague at 20, and before Capitalism that was life. And while the corruption of modern banking came after the "good era" of capitalism, it is still preferable to get cancer at 60 than the plague at 20.

Just because communism is worse than cronyism doesn't mean that cronyism is good. That was my point. So is it better to get stabbed than to be shot? Is cronyism better than communism? How about neither. 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

It does matter because placing yourself in the best possible position to survive catastrophe and ensure your own children are the ones who are well-fed and taken care of when disaster strikes is the most sacred objective of intelligent people.

And banking, even modern banking, isn't that bad since otherwise your neighbor's descendants would be sent off to forced labor anyway. Kekistan hasn't been built yet, and it's not going to get built in Galt's Gulch but rather by taking advantage of the current system to position yourself as well as possible.

This is fantasy on your part. This will either never happen or the warning signs will be so obvious that you can easily leave where you are. Mad max is just a movie, not a prophecy. 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Compared to keeping our noses out of everyone's business and being satisfied with the fact we were (are?) impenetrable would be best, but being the alpha wolf is still miles greater than being a beta let alone the omega. 

Relative to being another nation's slave we enslave other nations. It'd be better if we stopped enslaving people but at least we aren't getting enslaved (although if you stretch the metaphor, we most likely will be eventually unless we get out of here).  

Sure, but again, its one thing to live in a society where slavery is permitted and another thing to profit from it. You can't help the society you are born into but that doesn't make participating in immorality any less immoral. 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

No, they aren't. Compare it to being in North Korea or Arabia and you'd realize our poison is decent because it comes with perks.

There's no other prison I'd rather be in, but my preferred choice is to not be in any prison. Just because there are worse prisons doesn't make ours good. It's the same continuum. 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

I guess that depends on when he murdered and who, doesn't it?

However that's an even more fallacious analogy because being a modern banker is more like being an anonymous tax collector that's hated in general but unknown in particular.  

No it doesn't. That's just blaming the victim. Someone who is a murder for 12 seconds is characterized for the rest of his life as a murderer because any good that he might do is almost certainly outweighed by his evil. 

My point is that we characterize people by the evil that they do and that it takes a lot of good to outweigh a single evil act if it's possible at all. 

Can a murderer do enough good in the world to counter balance their ills? Maybe, but probably not, so it's better to not murder in the first place. 

Can a banker do enough good in the world to counter balance their ills? Maybe, but probably not, so it's better to not be a banker in the first place. 

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4 hours ago, mgggb said:

Okay, here's a few syllogisms. 

1. The state is predicated on the initiation of force. 

2. The initiation of force is evil. 

3. Therefore the state is an evil institution. 

 

1. The state is an evil institution. 

2. Bankers profit based on people's response to government incentives. 

3. Therefore bankers profit from an evil institution. 

 

1. The state is an evil institution. 

2. Lawyers give justifications to the legitimacy of state power. 

3. Therefore lawyers justify an evil institution. 

'

I can see the problem with justifying an evil institution, but profiting off of it? Better to be the wolf than the lamb. As simple as that. Meanwhile it's hard to really care about victims that don't cry or fight back. At least in the archetypal murder scenario the victim values his life. In the system we have most people are either degenerate losers or degenerate cucks. Both aren't really worth pitying. I care about the strong heart'd and intelligent who're striving to make something of themselves and build families for their progeny, in spite of the system. Using the system to that end is better than being used by the system, since these are really the only options available. I'm using the system by fighting it with writing. It may sound ironic but I don't think Right Wing or Libertarianism would be so gritty and exciting if we didn't have an enemy to make it exciting. And therefore I am profiting off an evil institution by exposing it, and other things like feminism, the welfare-warfare complex, etc. as enemies and making fun and profit by proposing and portraying good alternatives. 

 

4 hours ago, mgggb said:

 


 

1. My children will have to live in the world that I'm affecting. 

2. Choosing to be a banker/lawyer will affect the world negatively in the long term. 

3. Therefore choosing to be a banker/lawyer is a violation of the nap of my future children.

If you're good at either of these jobs I'm sure you can find someone to take your place while you raise your children. Most workers who actually work don't see their children for more than an hour a day, and while that's a tragedy it's the reality of life. The most common compromise if for one parent to stay at home (ideally the one who makes less money) and the other to spend most the daylight hours away at work. 

As a professional you could spend more time at home because you'd be getting paid more per hour than most would in a day, therefore presuming similar living expenses you could work little for the same as a clerk or construction guy earns in a day. And that's assuming you can't find a way for someone to do your job for you and pay them on the premise of apprenticeship. 

 

4 hours ago, mgggb said:

There are many other ways to make money and I'd also rather raise quality children than save up a lot of money to prepare for the fallout of a collapse that I'd be helping to orchestrate. Stock brokers aren't known for raising quality children, because of the demands of the job they end up being neglected, also a violation of the nap. 

Every way that involves making money involves participating in the evil system one way or another. Obviously some are more benign than others; me writing hurts no one but it is possible in time for people to turn my writing into an instruction manual (like 1984) or as a warning (also like 1984) and it could be said I'd be responsible for that, at least in part. 

I'm not saying be a banker or lawyer, but I am saying don't simply make it a black-and-white where all the guys on the black side are pure evil and the guys on the white side are pure victims. The white side is full of cucks and losers while the black side is full of other kinds of cucks and losers. They're both destable but one side is better off than the other for when society breaks up and civil war inevitably emerges.

 

4 hours ago, mgggb said:

Yes people are. They are being incentivized with tax programs like iras, 401ks, and inflation. 

Which technically isn't force, but I get the point. Better do A because is clearly better than B, and the only reason why there is a choice is because other people's bad actions.

 

4 hours ago, mgggb said:

And with this escape hatch talk, there's not going to be aglobal shtf scenario. Things will get bad in some places for a certain amount of time before normalizing. And those most effected will be those who dont have some kind of contingency in place. 

Yeah. I don't know what impression I was giving, but I figure we're due for civil wars based on some thing or another, possibly even genocides. Therefore I'd like to be prepared to jump ship on a moment's notice for peace of mind. Otherwise it's Hitler versus Stalin and hopefully Hitler won't be as bad as Stalin was (not holding my hopes up since they both end the same anyway).

 

4 hours ago, mgggb said:

Just because communism is worse than cronyism doesn't mean that cronyism is good. That was my point. So is it better to get stabbed than to be shot? Is cronyism better than communism? How about neither. 

Because neither isn't a choice.

4 hours ago, mgggb said:

This is fantasy on your part. This will either never happen or the warning signs will be so obvious that you can easily leave where you are. Mad max is just a movie, not a prophecy. 

Again I am referring to the likelihood of civil war in the West, and the only "safe place" I can think of would be China or Japan, and I doubt they'd appreciate millions of Whities fleeing danger like the Muslims did, as I'm sure they'd be expecting trouble if we did. 

 

4 hours ago, mgggb said:

Sure, but again, its one thing to live in a society where slavery is permitted and another thing to profit from it. You can't help the society you are born into but that doesn't make participating in immorality any less immoral. 

A better analogy is either you're a slave, or you're a patrician. Therefore you must decide, stretching the analogy, if it's better for your progeny to be slaves for potentially ever, or to be masters for potentially ever. That's not a hard choice to make.

4 hours ago, mgggb said:

There's no other prison I'd rather be in, but my preferred choice is to not be in any prison. Just because there are worse prisons doesn't make ours good. It's the same continuum. 

Agreed. I could say cronysim isn't as far "left" on the continuum as medieval barbarism but they're all bad, especially relative to what could be.

 

4 hours ago, mgggb said:

No it doesn't. That's just blaming the victim. Someone who is a murder for 12 seconds is characterized for the rest of his life as a murderer because any good that he might do is almost certainly outweighed by his evil. 

 

Hypothetically the victim was a criminal, or it was an accident and the killer was a kid, etc. etc. My point being is that there is often no good answer to be found in reality, as the heroes aren't doing much tangible to make theory a reality. And unfortunately guys like Stefpai can only realistically propose and expose rather than do. He can't lead a revolution and establish AnCap Kekistan nor be the guy behind the scenes pulling the strings in our favor. However I greatly admire him because he's doing the best he can and creating a world, however small, for his progeny. 

 

4 hours ago, mgggb said:

My point is that we characterize people by the evil that they do and that it takes a lot of good to outweigh a single evil act if it's possible at all. 

Can a murderer do enough good in the world to counter balance their ills? Maybe, but probably not, so it's better to not murder in the first place. 

Can a banker do enough good in the world to counter balance their ills? Maybe, but probably not, so it's better to not be a banker in the first place. 

Banking is not the equivalent to murder. Murder is wrong (hence it's called murder and not "self defense" or "revenge") but it'd be better compared to "harvesting" or "milking" since most people are practically barnyard animals uncaring and unaware of their situation, and therefore they aren't really worth defending against someone who's harvesting them for their children.

Again that's making the assumption Mr Banker is doing it for his kids. Most probably aren't or are but doing it badly. However combined great wealth and power with Stefanist-style peaceful parenting and RTR and you have the foundation for a dynasty.

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