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"Religion is the cause of all wars"


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9 replies to this topic

#1
Donnadogsoth

Donnadogsoth
  • 1359 posts
For the record this saw is false, misleading, and a slander against Christianity and I'll prove it just from memory of every war I can think of fought by or in Christian nations.
 
Hundred Years War 1337-1453
Wars of the Roses 1455 – 1485
English Civil War 1642–1651
American Revolutionary War 1775-1783
French Revolutionary War 1789-1799
Napoleonic Wars 1803-1815
Russo-Japanese War 1804-1805
War of 1812 1812-1815
Crimean War 1853-1856
American Civil War 1861-1865
Spanish American War 1898
Boer War 1899-1902
First World War 1914-1918
Russian Revolutionary War 1917-1918
Spanish Civil War 1936-1939
Second World War 1939-1945
Cold War 1947-1991
Colombian Civil War 1964-2016
US-Grenada War 1983
First Gulf War 1990-1991
Afghan War 2001-2014
Second Gulf War 2003-2011
 
The exception to this list I can think of are
 
Thirty Years War 1618-1648
The Crusades
and...?
 
"Religion" and certainly Christianity, is not the cause of all wars or even most.  We must look elsewhere if we want to find the source of war in Christian nations or, I conjecture, anywhere else.  Though there is a particular Religion that  does seem to be associated with vast amounts of grievous war and belligerence, on account of itself...

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#2
Rventurelli

Rventurelli
  • 82 posts

I know this is kind of off topic, but:

I think the only just wars are the ones fought over land. Land produces wealth and opportunities, not talking about farms only, you can build anything over land. It is the only thing that is worth fight and dying for other than self-defense, of course.

People who say religion is the cause of all wars clearly do not know what they are talking about.


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#3
themortalgod

themortalgod
  • 25 posts

The title is a bit misleading as it claims to disprove that all wars are caused by religion, but instead you are aiming to show that Christianity is not responsible for all wars. Which is absolutely true and easily provable as war predates Christianity. That said, on the original topic I suspect it would be very difficult to name many wars that don't have some religious component to them throughout the entirety of human history. I wouldn't go so far as to say religion causes all wars but it is certainly and always has been a factor in them.

That said, given that there has never been a nation, that I know of, that wasn't made up of a majority of religious individuals that suggests correlating religion to war might be as insane as say correlating oxygen breathing war. 

 

I think religion certainly has fuelled many wars though. Not all, but many. 

 

I always like to think of the famous Steven Weinberg quote: "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion."

Its not that religion is inherently bad and its not that religion is inherently warlike. Its that religion often looks to replace individual morality with its own contruction of morality which means faithful individuals often accept the gospel of that morality above their own common sense. This becomes a tremendous problem when a moral doctrine is warped or altered in a nefarious way. 


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#4
Rventurelli

Rventurelli
  • 82 posts

The title is a bit misleading as it claims to disprove that all wars are caused by religion, but instead you are aiming to show that Christianity is not responsible for all wars. Which is absolutely true and easily provable as war predates Christianity. That said, on the original topic I suspect it would be very difficult to name many wars that don't have some religious component to them throughout the entirety of human history. I wouldn't go so far as to say religion causes all wars but it is certainly and always has been a factor in them.

That said, given that there has never been a nation, that I know of, that wasn't made up of a majority of religious individuals that suggests correlating religion to war might be as insane as say correlating oxygen breathing war. 

 

I think religion certainly has fuelled many wars though. Not all, but many. 

 

I always like to think of the famous Steven Weinberg quote: "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion."

Its not that religion is inherently bad and its not that religion is inherently warlike. Its that religion often looks to replace individual morality with its own contruction of morality which means faithful individuals often accept the gospel of that morality above their own common sense. This becomes a tremendous problem when a moral doctrine is warped or altered in a nefarious way. 

In all of us, even good men, there is an unruly beast waiting to take over if the circumstances are right. Quoting Plato here, but cannot remember which page of The Republic or if that is the exact quote.


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#5
Donnadogsoth

Donnadogsoth
  • 1359 posts

In all of us, even good men, there is an unruly beast waiting to take over if the circumstances are right. Quoting Plato here, but cannot remember which page of The Republic or if that is the exact quote.

 

Christianity calls it "original sin".

 

Freud called it "the id".

 

It's in there.


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#6
Rventurelli

Rventurelli
  • 82 posts

Christianity calls it "original sin".

 

Freud called it "the id".

 

It's in there.

 

Agreed. 


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#7
RoseCodex

RoseCodex
  • 1147 posts

Jordan Peterson talked about this with Stef.  He made the point that different tribes of chimpanzees will war on each other, and actually Christianity and religion can also bring tribes together.  Of course the danger is that this creates a "super-tribe"; nations or alliances of nations that can then escalate into military conflicts with other nations with different belief systems.  But to blame this on religion I agree is short-sighted and incorrect.


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#8
Tyler H

Tyler H
  • 473 posts

I know this is kind of off topic, but:
I think the only just wars are the ones fought over land. Land produces wealth and opportunities, not talking about farms only, you can build anything over land. It is the only thing that is worth fight and dying for other than self-defense, of course.
People who say religion is the cause of all wars clearly do not know what they are talking about.

I'm unsure how this makes war just, could you explain?
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#9
Mishi2

Mishi2
  • 55 posts

Allow me to play devil's advocate here. The phrase in question is "religion is the cause of all wars".

 

Religion in its contemporary sense according to Webster is:

1a :  the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>b (1) :  the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) :  commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2 :  a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3 archaic :  scrupulous conformity :  conscientiousness

4 :  a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

 

​War according to Webster:

1a (1) :  a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2) :  a period of such armed conflict (3) :  state of warb :  the art or science of warfarec (1) obsolete :  weapons and equipment for war (2) archaic :  soldiers armed and equipped for war

2a :  a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonismb :  a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end <a class war> <a war against disease>c :  variance, odds 3

 

Ethymology of the Word "religion": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio

In short, it can be traced back to the Romans, but in its modern use, it was made prominent by St Augustine.

 

Religion may not have been the direct cause every time, but it was certainly one of the causes. If all religions had taught that absolutely no human can be killed under any circumstance, then perhaps there would have been no war ever. The sorry fact is, however, that a pacifist religion would not last long in the real World.

 

The question now is: "Is the solution to have no religion at all then?"

In my opinion, atheism is still in its incubation phase. There has not been too many testing done with atheist cultures, although every single early testing resulted in a catastrophic failiure: Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Sweden, France... (Still awaiting results from Chechia, Japan, Spain, Netherlands, Canada, Estonia, Latvia...)


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#10
Rventurelli

Rventurelli
  • 82 posts

I'm unsure how this makes war just, could you explain?

As a manner of self-preservation. The logic goes like this: the only guaranteed way of having something done is doing it yourself. The only guaranteed way of having food for your country/people is producing it yourself. So, if a country has an extremely high population density, like 300+ persons per square kilometer, it would be justified from their point of view to acquire land. And there you have a big part of the reason why tribes originally expanded.


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