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“It is my assessment that the left has destroyed at the very least the nuclear family and consequently gender roles by creating a nanny state. However, it seems that my dear group, the atheists have destroyed any sense of community that extends beyond family and are pushing a sort of hedonistic anarchy. It seems more and more that we need something but being an atheist, the idea of going back is akin to being asked to believe in Santa Claus again. What can we (as atheists) use as a long-term supplement?”Freedomain Radio is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by signing up for a monthly subscription or making a one time donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donateGet more from Stefan Molyneux and Freedomain Radio including books, podcasts and other info at: http://www.freedomainradio.comAmazon Affiliate LinksUS: http://www.fdrurl.com/AmazonCanada: http://www.fdrurl.com/AmazonCanadaUK: http://www.fdrurl.com/AmazonUK

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Islam will win because they're willing to bet their life on it. When atheists start betting their life over the 2nd law of thermodynamics with enough conviction, then you'll see some serious pushback.

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Islam will win because they're willing to bet their life on it. When atheists start betting their life over the 2nd law of thermodynamics with enough conviction, then you'll see some serious pushback.

 

I bet my life, my family, and my earnings on science being right every day.

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I bet my life, my family, and my earnings on science being right every day.

 

And that's why, I presume, you're not a relativist marxist "refugees welcome" blob. Atheism as a non belief in gods is not the same as a life-worth conviction in truth and science. Many are making the retreat to Christianity because it also has convictions that people take to die for, martyrdoms, but they miss the point that it is not the Christianity that defends you from Islam or Thirdworldism or Marxism - it's the conviction in something true at all. Conviction VS Conviction, not Religion VS Religion.

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Christianity is really the main reason for there being no pushback.  The communist creed is a line from the Bible.  Communism is basically Christianity minus God and the detritus of prophets, spirituality, etcetera.  It's no coincidence that Germany, the ultimate suicide machine, is headed by a Christian party.

 

...the prime, basic and root principle of socialism: “He who does not work, neither shall he eat.” “He who does not work, neither shall he eat”—every toiler understands that. Every worker, every poor and even middle peasant, everybody who has suffered need in his lifetime, everybody who has ever lived by his own labour, is in agreement with this. Nine-tenths of the population of Russia are in agreement with this truth. In this simple, elementary and perfectly obvious truth lies the basis of socialism, the indefeasible source of its strength, the indestructible pledge of its final victory.

Lenin, 1918

 

All Marx did was rip off the Bible and claim that capitalists don't work.

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And that's why, I presume, you're not a relativist marxist "refugees welcome" blob. Atheism as a non belief in gods is not the same as a life-worth conviction in truth and science. Many are making the retreat to Christianity because it also has convictions that people take to die for, martyrdoms, but they miss the point that it is not the Christianity that defends you from Islam or Thirdworldism or Marxism - it's the conviction in something true at all. Conviction VS Conviction, not Religion VS Religion.

 

I just don't need a conviction in an irrelevant category. Plenty of religionists that don't get, or practice, ethics and morality. It's an orthogonal vector to the fight.

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From the video: " Which are the groups that are behaving best these days?"

Well, over here definitely not the christians, especially not Priests etc. Up to the Pope, whom I would call a communist with Tiara, they embrace everybody who believes anything, as long as he is a refugee of course. The Pope is the "good" one, the rest can deal with the troubles and earn the resources for his goodness.

 

Why do the Atheists not speak up? Well, there are only a few who would call themselves Atheists. (Let alone Objectivists.)

So the majority, who practice christian traditions loosely, is taught to be "tolerant". Thats what Jesus said.

 

After several decades of socialistic school system only few people have heard of e.g. Karl Popper -"There must be no tolerance to the intolerant" - so that anger and fear is hardly proper articulated.

Hopefully soon in the voting booth.

 

regards

Andi

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At 41:09 Stefan asks "When was the last time you saw a religious person positively portrayed in a Hollywood movie, a Christian I mean?"

In Hacksaw Ridge, a great movie released a few months ago, directed by Mel Gibson about a Christian in WW2, and did very well at the box office.

 

But when before that? Jeez, it's been a long while, and I guess it's how you would define 'Hollywood movie'.

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Why do the Atheists not speak up?

 

Organizational unity around the lack of a claim in a particular category of belief systems is not a unifying principle. It barely justifies having a label.

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In Hollywood at least the good guys give a proper answer to the bad guys ;)

All we hear after a terror attack is that due to some kind of magic everbody is guilty, except the perpetrator and the lunatic politicians who invited him.

 

Organizational unity around the lack of a claim in a particular category of belief systems is not a unifying principle. It barely justifies having a label.

 

Yes, I do agree. And I am not happy with the label that Atheists tend to be left. Actually, as said, things have changed - nowadays the Priests do the job of the lefties.

As they always obeyed to the Zeitgeist.

 

regards

Andi

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Organizational unity around the lack of a claim in a particular category of belief systems is not a unifying principle. It barely justifies having a label.

 

Many people simply reject god as a stand-in for morality because they want to live a hedonistic lifestyle.

 

Just the same as many libertarians reject the state as a stand-in for rules because they want to live a hedonistic lifestyle.

 

Looking at various communities, they all have their r/K selection divide. It's very easy to get along with K selected people whom you disagree with, but R selected people... that is another story.

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Many people simply reject god as a stand-in for morality because they want to live a hedonistic lifestyle.

 

And this is a unifying principle how? Hedonists aren't great at organizational unity.

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Christianity is really the main reason for there being no pushback.  The communist creed is a line from the Bible.  Communism is basically Christianity minus God and the detritus of prophets, spirituality, etcetera.  It's no coincidence that Germany, the ultimate suicide machine, is headed by a Christian party.

 

At which part did Jesus say to kill people for disagreeing with you? Which part did Jesus tell his followers to control the economy? Where did He instruct His people to balance the flow of goods and services under force of arms?

I can give verses attributed directly from His mouth (or Paul) instructing things totally opposite of communism.

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Christianity is more than Jesus. Christianity is e.g. the doctrine of serving. Look at the story where God tells Abraham to kill his son, cause God wants a proof of Abrahams servility. Shockingly to any reasonable mind, Abraham is willing to do that, when, literally in the last second, God stops the murder.

 

Just kidding, just wanted to see wether you obey me....

Thats something I kept my childrens mind away as far as I could.

 

So when peoples faith in God started to vanish in the course of enlightenment, nevertheless the breeding grounds to replace God with the state was prepared.

Pay and serve.

Obedience is a mighty tool for any government. As is the idea of redemption - someone will come and save us, however all who came in Europe unleashed hell.

 

I have a very pragmatic view to the situation in Europe.

If people are not smart enough, influenced by socialistic propaganda or not, to vote the nomenklatura into Nirwana, they do not deserve better. Period.

My childs are well educated and can go anywhere.

 

regards

Andi

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Gentlemen,

                    This was a great call. Stefan truly puts forth a great argument, who is worse Islam or Christianity. I agree with this question fundamentally being asked. I am a Christian, have been about 3 years. I was brought up a Christian and like most of you by the time I could question I did. honestly, the caller did bring up a point, it seems today's atheist as a whole are more a bunch of whinny Christian haters, but give Islam a total pass. I know many of your viewers and maybe even Stef and mike themselves would disagree with me, but Christianity is why the western civilization as a whole is so far more advanced than Eastern. Of course Christianity has been down right terrible in the past. and the answers for Christianity over stepping and doing terrible things has been the renaissance, the enlightenment, and I would even suggest the down fall of evangel fanatic churches in the 80's and 90's. I myself am a non denominational contemporary church goer, not because I love church or even because I think god is up there watching me and saying I will smite thee if you don't go.

                I think maybe I need to explain myself, a little background info. I was born into a family that were southern Baptist(fairly fanatic Christian sect), I was forced to go to church until I reached the age of 19(the year I left my parents house, also the year I graduated high school) by the age of 12 I completely questioned everything about the Christian faith. and slowly after that I became anti Christian, all the way to the point that I became a Satanist. something that most of you might not know Satanists for the most part are just atheist that troll Christians, just a FYI. I had many many problems that led me to question whether a god existed, and I decided there wasn't and left the church of Satan by the age of 22. By the age of 28, I became a Christian again. I am not a person who completely follows a church, and I am not a person who does not know things like the bible isn't al the way accurate,  and the old testament is a terrible section on laws and everything. I truly find myself more at peace and not so hate filled being a Christian, especially when I was an atheist/Satanist/Buddhist. I went through nearly 10 years of my life trying to find a place for me spiritually and all I needed to do in my own experience was to one pray to god, almost mocking him and asked to be shown a sign that he is the one true god. which if you were wondering what his response was to me, I was in Iraq in the army, on the biggest base we had there, this was mid 2010. We had been placed nearly in the middle of this base, and super rarely were we ever to see mortars especially at this year, the least I had ever experienced while overseas, I think in total we had incoming like 5 times. all this I tell you because it is what personally changed my life. not over night by any means but slowly got me to become a Christian. I prayed what I was saying above, and literally 3 hours later I was in my housing unit or CHU by myself in the bed when before the incoming alarms sounded my bed was hit with a 60MM mortar, this was my bed, in my chu, with me on it, on my side of the chu. the mortar was a dud.... it didn't go off, now I know what many would say to that, but if I were to put on the chance of this happening its so by far microscopic that to think that it could happen is a stretch. after this, I began to pray more and more read the bible more and more, and realize a few things about Christianity that I never got. you see churches truly don't teach things that are real, they teach false teachings. you see I hate the hypocrisy of the churches, but as I understood more and more its not hypocrisy its the freewill of the people, and sometimes the radical teachings of church, but still. then of course the hurdles of science and facts was in my way next, well I started to question if I believe in god, and god is omnipotent, why can't God have done all these things that many question. then of course the morality of god was one of the hardest hurdles to cross for me. if there is a just and loving god why would he create so much hate/hurt/and death in the world? the quick answer I came up with is god made us have freewill, and sometimes when the decisions of anyone doesn't affect the outcome, it was to do something for someone. if we were just made to be here with no suffering, how would we know when we are happy? anyways, I could go on and on about all this, but I understand many people here will not understand my reasoning, but do understand that personally I don't care if you aren't a Christian, I don't care if you hate Christians. im not going to try and convert you over to Christianity, I don't care, because I don't have to care. you have freewill and so do I. I guess my big point here is that many of the more mainstream churches now in days are becoming more and more K selected individuals. I know I can myself talk to people in the Christian community honestly about the wrongs that Christians have done and many so called Christians do today, but I never could do that in my atheist community when I was atheist, same when I was really young in fanatic Christian church. maybe im just hopeful that one day people can see that its not what you believe but that what you do/are.       

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No, I do not hate Christians. I simply do not share their view, thats all.

I do not give Islam a pass. I simply do not share the Muslims view, thats all.

 

Some facts: Christianity was introduced as state religion in the Roman Empire at the end of the third century. Not because Cäsar Theodosius had Faith, he simply wanted a strong state, with one religion, and one god, to keep the weakened empire together. In his function as Pontifex Maximus, a title he automatically held as Cäsar, he was the one who knew what god wanted and thus increased state power. As we know, he could not prevent the split in Western and Eastern Rome.

 

But the first Christians behaved pretty much like the Taliban nowadays. They closed the theaters, centers of discussion. They forbid the Philosophers, all one had to know comes from God. They closed schools, while pretty much of the roman citizens could read and write, only one generation after christian takeover all but the priests were illiterate, nowbody knew any more how to build an aqueduct or keep the infrastructure. Poverty grew (it was a virtue now), economics went down and should not reach the level of the Roman Empire til centuries later.

Christianity did a major contribution to the decline of the Roman Empire, to whole Europe, it cost a 1000 years of development and prosperity, let alone human lives.

 

No, I do not share their view.

 

Now Mohammed, some 200 years later, presented an improved version of monotheism. Seen from the ones who held power - state, Kings, etc. etc. - Christianity has some drawbacks, such as the division between spiritual and secular power. This drawback finally saved Europe, since the notion that there could, maybe, and only if God will, another point of view then the one the state creates was never completely extinguished. It glowed for centuries, hidden and secret, til it sparked the fire of enlightenment.

 

Islam was completely invented from scratch and does not have those drawbacks. The state, the power, the minds, its all one. Thats why Islam is so inherent dangerous, and thats why there will be war and violence as long as Islam exists.

 

No, I do not share their view.

 

One more word: The letterpress was invented 1450 AD. In 1480 the letterpress was forbidden in the Ottoman Empire, cause they feared that some other books than the Koran might be printed. Around 1700 AD a few million different books were printed in Europe.

Still non in the Ottoman Empire.

It was not the Crusades, it was not the British, and it was not the USA centuries later that caused the troubles in Middle East.

They kicked themselves out.

We owe them nothing.

 

regards

Andi

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I say islam is worse.

There are remarkable people here or there that stand out, like a 7ft tall Chinese man. For the most part just look at the countries where islam dominates. Leading by example.

 

Even Christianity at its worst point in history (a brief period by the way) only had power by saddling up with the government. Inquisitors, for example had to be lawyers, not priests. Outside of isolated events like the Salem witch trials, Christianity has mostly been either a positive influence, or benign.

Don't jump to Hitler though. That would be back on government power. Hitler used the Catholic church, he also used the occult. He also used his own Brownshirts up until he had them executed in the 'Night of the Long Knives'.

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Ask an atheist who appears to not have any morals: "is it okay if I kill you?"

 

The person might try to fog the question, so just keep asking until the person will have to say no.

 

Then say "Great, so you want a peaceful existence. I do too. It means we have a common moral goal to keep our society peaceful. Now join me to do what is best for society, thus ultimately yourself."

 

 

It should/will also work on determinists who have been misled by some sort of fatalism.

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It certainly is true that the history of Christianity is different in Europe and overseas. So obviously there are different point of views.

 

Witch hunt took place in Europe from 1500 - 1800 AD. The number of victims is estimated to be around 60.000, mostly women, often widows who inherited valuable property.

How do you think managed the church to become such a wealthy institution? Not by the free market - by robbery and torture in the name of God.

 

Then there was the Thirty Years´ War from 1618- 1648. Religious driven, Catholics against Protestants. Whole Europe was a battlefield, between 30 - and 40% of the population was extinguished, with crueltis and tortures never seen before.

 

Just to name a few highlights.

 

regards

Andi

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I say islam is worse.

 

According to exit polls, atheists voted for Trump almost twice as much as Muslims did (atheists 23%, Muslims 13%), so you might be right on the basis of voting for obvious collectivists.

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At which part did Jesus say to kill people for disagreeing with you? Which part did Jesus tell his followers to control the economy? Where did He instruct His people to balance the flow of goods and services under force of arms?

Not attributed to Jesus, but: "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin." There is no need to explicitly instruct what the plan obviously entails, like there's no need to recommend what kind of knot to use on shoelaces.  Killing people is the means of serving the root principle that is most obvious to the simplest knuckle dragger.  There's also no instruction in the criminal code mandating punishment.  Prisons mysteriously fill themselves.  There's no instruction to police.  Suspects mysteriously get shot.

 

I can give verses attributed directly from His mouth (or Paul) instructing things totally opposite of communism.

Who cares?  Words are hollow and we all know how self contradictory the book is.

  How about this: where are the religious opponents of Putin's speech wherein he essentially said the same thing as I did?

“And when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, nor shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the Lord your God.”  At this point in time it no longer matters to Marxists what that book says.  The lasting impression is what counts.  Meanwhile, Islam will destroy Christianity because Christianity is comparatively pacifist.  Turning the other cheek is not exactly the ultimate survival tactic.  That is why Germany is now toast.

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