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Its not you. Its me.


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15 replies to this topic

#1
Openeye

Openeye
  • 19 posts

I am thinking about leaving FDR and unsubscribing from Stefs YouTube channel.

I have not been on this site for very long (though I have lurked for some time), and I have not donated anything to Stef or the FDR community as a whole so I do not expect that me leaving has any importance or that anyone will really care, but I wanted to make this thread to get some input on the reason I am contemplating this.

 

I think I have become too reliant of Stefs prospective.

 

I carry around in my wallet a quote from Christopher Hitchens which has always been a source of both comfort and inspiration to me. He said…“Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.” I carry this around with me because when I heard it my life was changed. I became a skeptic and started critically thinking about my belief systems.

 

I have been throughout my life (and arguably still am) a follower and very impressionable; when I was young I was not necessarily encouraged to have my own beliefs as I was raised in a religious household (Mormon) and I was always a very shy person. This led me to latch on to anything that my parents believed in (i.e. I was Mormon because they were; I was conservative because they were, etc).

 

When my parents split and I got a little older I went through a rebel phase and for the first time in my life I felt a little liberated. I moved away to the other side of the country on a whim in an attempt to find myself. However looking back on it now I was just following a new leader (or leaders) in the form of the literature I read, the media I consumed, and the people I surrounded myself with. To me at the time 9/11 was an inside job not due to any evidence, but because my brother, my friends and some charismatic guys on the net and elsewhere said so.

 

After a few years I started questioning some things I believed (probably due to some depression) this is when I discovered the Hitchens quote. For the first time in my life I told myself that I do not know shit; that all my beliefs are based off of laziness. I asked myself how I can hold the beliefs that I do without actually understanding them. I came to the conclusion that my beliefs (true or not) were faith based positions.

 

I promised myself I would never fall into this trap again. But alas…I believe I have. I no longer do the work I just let Stef do it and then say to myself “Stef is smart he must be right weeeeeeeee!”

 

So today after feeling really uncomfortable and depressed I went out of my way to convince myself that all my beliefs were false, which was just as counterproductive as it sounds. After that little bit of self abuse I just sat and went into a state of deep thought and came to a very sad conclusion in that I cannot listen to anyone who is in any sort of spotlight without becoming absolutely enamored.

 

Maybe I am in the right and my desire to pursue truth trumps listening to Stef and lurking in these forums, or maybe I’m just crying out for help with this thread simply dismayed that my beliefs are almost universally rejected I’m honestly not sure.

 

So any comments or suggestions would be great, thanks all.


  • 3

#2
dsayers

dsayers

    collateral damage

  • 2225 posts

I value Stef's perspective. More than that, I value his methodology. It helps me think for myself. I never just take what he says as gospel. I think about it for myself and proceed accordingly. This is one of the reason I mostly try to stay away from quotes or even citing specific individuals.

 

One tip I would offer: re-read your post and look for the word belief. I'm not saying it's your only problem, but I think it is problematic. We live in a society that assigns the rank on incontestable to beliefs, especially if they're organized (religion). This is very dangerous. Start with first principles and use rationality to test a belief. It doesn't pan out, discard it. Belief is like anger: it's not the end of the story. It's motivation to strive towards the end of that particular story, hopefully in a productive fashion.


  • 2

Providing value doesn't justify providing anti-value. I won't pay to be censored.


#3
LovePrevails

LovePrevails
  • 1823 posts

hey I understand that a lot of people come along and replace their own inner dialogue with Stef podcasts

 

I've done it  in the past

 

I think you can trust yourself not to be an all-or-nothing guy ---- broaden out, listen to different voices and media

 

but most importantly take some time not to listen and to listen to yourself

journal about your own life and views

journal about points of disagreement so you can clearly see why you disagree as well as where

 

this will help you find your voice

 

 

just a suggestion you can take or leave!


  • 2

#4
PatrickC

PatrickC

    London Meetup organiser

  • 3084 posts

Personally, I would just go get some help and find a good therapist. Since you do sound clearly depressed. It's not unusual to become enamoured with a great thinker, it's quite normal actually. However, if it really is that troubling for you, then a therapist would be the best one to try and understand that.

 

Like you I came from a strongly religious background and my first anxiety with Stef and FDR was that it felt a lot like those religious communities I grew up in. So I panicked and worried what had I gotten myself into. Of course it had nothing to do with Stef or FDR, it was all about my own personal history.

 

So I'd say go explore that history and take a hiatus from the boards and the podcasts if you think that will help. Philosophy can be a harsh mistress for those that try to pretend or avoid her. Sadly the red pill has already been swllowed. Best of luck!


  • 0

#5
Rainbow Jamz

Rainbow Jamz

    That Popular Anti-Social Guy

  • 1556 posts

Thank you for your honesty and openness, Openeye. I empathize with you fully, I used to take everything word for word as well, but that's when I realized that wasn't the point of philosophy. What I think is okay to do is accept Stefan's philosophical process of thinking, but not the conclusions. Those are up to you and you alone. You shouldn't be too hard on yourself for thinking you blindly follow with whatever sounds the greatest at the time. There's a reason why you did it and I guess you do understand why you do it. But ultimately, external influence or not, at least be accountable and actually proud that it has always been you and only you who has chosen what to do with your life. Give yourself some credit.

 

Whatever you choose to do in terms of this community, I respect that. Obviously you're free to stay or leave, hell even lurk from time to time. I'm sorry for your religious upbringing, but it sounds like you've broken free of it to some degree, especially if you know yourself well enough to make this post. Good luck in whatever follows after you officially leave this place. I hope the value you gained from listening can still provide you with...value lol and is not in vain. Take some time for yourself and developing your own identity, and if you ever feel like it, you're always welcome to check back here. 


  • 1

You don't know Heaven 'til you've gone through Hell.

 

Nothing is permanent, only short term or long term.

 

http://www.yourwritetolive.com - implementing tips for writing fiction as tools for self knowledge!


#6
sagiquarius

sagiquarius
  • 110 posts

I am thinking about leaving FDR and unsubscribing from Stefs YouTube channel.

I have not been on this site for very long (though I have lurked for some time), and I have not donated anything to Stef or the FDR community as a whole so I do not expect that me leaving has any importance or that anyone will really care, but I wanted to make this thread to get some input on the reason I am contemplating this.

 

I think I have become too reliant of Stefs prospective.

 

I carry around in my wallet a quote from Christopher Hitchens which has always been a source of both comfort and inspiration to me. He said…“Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.” I carry this around with me because when I heard it my life was changed. I became a skeptic and started critically thinking about my belief systems.

 

I have been throughout my life (and arguably still am) a follower and very impressionable; when I was young I was not necessarily encouraged to have my own beliefs as I was raised in a religious household (Mormon) and I was always a very shy person. This led me to latch on to anything that my parents believed in (i.e. I was Mormon because they were; I was conservative because they were, etc).

 

When my parents split and I got a little older I went through a rebel phase and for the first time in my life I felt a little liberated. I moved away to the other side of the country on a whim in an attempt to find myself. However looking back on it now I was just following a new leader (or leaders) in the form of the literature I read, the media I consumed, and the people I surrounded myself with. To me at the time 9/11 was an inside job not due to any evidence, but because my brother, my friends and some charismatic guys on the net and elsewhere said so.

 

After a few years I started questioning some things I believed (probably due to some depression) this is when I discovered the Hitchens quote. For the first time in my life I told myself that I do not know shit; that all my beliefs are based off of laziness. I asked myself how I can hold the beliefs that I do without actually understanding them. I came to the conclusion that my beliefs (true or not) were faith based positions.

 

I promised myself I would never fall into this trap again. But alas…I believe I have. I no longer do the work I just let Stef do it and then say to myself “Stef is smart he must be right weeeeeeeee!”

 

So today after feeling really uncomfortable and depressed I went out of my way to convince myself that all my beliefs were false, which was just as counterproductive as it sounds. After that little bit of self abuse I just sat and went into a state of deep thought and came to a very sad conclusion in that I cannot listen to anyone who is in any sort of spotlight without becoming absolutely enamored.

 

Maybe I am in the right and my desire to pursue truth trumps listening to Stef and lurking in these forums, or maybe I’m just crying out for help with this thread simply dismayed that my beliefs are almost universally rejected I’m honestly not sure.

 

So any comments or suggestions would be great, thanks all.

Why don't you trust yourself?


  • 0

I'm a budding podcaster!  Please check out my soundcloud channel:  https://soundcloud.com/sagiquarion

 


#7
Openeye

Openeye
  • 19 posts

I would like to thank everyone for their replies, they were all very helpful.

 

I have made the decesion to leave these boards at least for a while. I need to gain some self confidence and devote myself to gaining a better understanding of philosophy and anarchism so I can actually speak about these things without feeling empty.

 

I will be taking exelents advice and I will be seeking therapy. I know for sure I have a lot of work to do in that area.

 

So I guess this is goodbye at least for now.

 

Thanks for all the help everyone.


  • 4

#8
Wesley

Wesley

    Self-Excavator

  • 1412 posts

Good luck, dude.


  • 0

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#9
Integral Paradox

Integral Paradox
  • 31 posts

Do what you feel you have to do, but there are so many charismatic people out there with all sorts of worldviews, there has to be some reason specific ones are able to draw you in and others don't. Let rationality be the guiding force behind whatever you feel your identity should be, since it probably already is, though I think a complete breakdown of our former beliefs can be healthy and necessary at first.


  • 0

#10
Quadrewple

Quadrewple
  • 36 posts
For the first time in my life I told myself that I do not know shit; that all my beliefs are based off of laziness. I asked myself how I can hold the beliefs that I do without actually understanding them. I came to the conclusion that my beliefs (true or not) were faith based positions.

 

I promised myself I would never fall into this trap again. But alas…I believe I have. I no longer do the work I just let Stef do it and then say to myself “Stef is smart he must be right weeeeeeeee!”

 

So today after feeling really uncomfortable and depressed I went out of my way to convince myself that all my beliefs were false, which was just as counterproductive as it sounds. After that little bit of self abuse I just sat and went into a state of deep thought and came to a very sad conclusion in that I cannot listen to anyone who is in any sort of spotlight without becoming absolutely enamored.

 

Maybe I am in the right and my desire to pursue truth trumps listening to Stef and lurking in these forums, or maybe I’m just crying out for help with this thread simply dismayed that my beliefs are almost universally rejected I’m honestly not sure.

 

I listened to the most recent call-in show and Stef made a great point.  Listening to FDR is like watching sports.  Most people see a sport played before they actually play it and most people listen to FDR before they live according to philosophical principles.  At any given time you're faced with the decision of taking what you've learned and implementing it, or continuing to watch/listen and avoiding taking action.  You mentioned the word faith in your post.  You may want to ask yourself why you are listening to him in the first place?  Take a long hard look at what goes on inside your head when you think to turn on FDR, and whether your desire to listen is coming from the desire to learn principles which you will act on, or if the acquisition of knowledge is a way to avoid taking action.  You don't need to tell me or anyone else what that answer is, but if you're honest with yourself, you'll find the answer and can use that information to better determine whether or not you're listening to FDR for the best possible reasons.  For me, I know that my favorite way to take avoid action is to listen to FDR, because it's more brain engaging than watching sports or television.  I suspect you may be acting the same as me (obviously this could be me projecting).

 

I've decided to stop listening to FDR for the time being and spend that time journaling about ACTION I can take and not hiding my true self from the people in my life.  I've been listening for 6 years and while my inner life has transformed in many ways because of the show, I have been using the podcasts as a distraction from action.


  • 1

#11
Rainbow Jamz

Rainbow Jamz

    That Popular Anti-Social Guy

  • 1556 posts

I listened to the most recent call-in show and Stef made a great point.  Listening to FDR is like watching sports.  Most people see a sport played before they actually play it and most people listen to FDR before they live according to philosophical principles.  At any given time you're faced with the decision of taking what you've learned and implementing it, or continuing to watch/listen and avoiding taking action.  You mentioned the word faith in your post.  You may want to ask yourself why you are listening to him in the first place?  Take a long hard look at what goes on inside your head when you think to turn on FDR, and whether your desire to listen is coming from the desire to learn principles which you will act on, or if the acquisition of knowledge is a way to avoid taking action.  You don't need to tell me or anyone else what that answer is, but if you're honest with yourself, you'll find the answer and can use that information to better determine whether or not you're listening to FDR for the best possible reasons.  For me, I know that my favorite way to take avoid action is to listen to FDR, because it's more brain engaging than watching sports or television.  I suspect you may be acting the same as me (obviously this could be me projecting).

 

I've decided to stop listening to FDR for the time being and spend that time journaling about ACTION I can take and not hiding my true self from the people in my life.  I've been listening for 6 years and while my inner life has transformed in many ways because of the show, I have been using the podcasts as a distraction from action.

 

That's something I feel guilty about sometimes. 


  • 0

You don't know Heaven 'til you've gone through Hell.

 

Nothing is permanent, only short term or long term.

 

http://www.yourwritetolive.com - implementing tips for writing fiction as tools for self knowledge!


#12
Joel Patterson

Joel Patterson
  • 328 posts

It's not about Stef, FDR, or the board. It's about the truth, virture, and living your values. If taking a break from here helps you achieve your goals, then by all mean do what you gotta do, brother. I haven't listened to the podcast series in like a month. 


  • 0

#13
Pepin

Pepin
  • 913 posts

Though this may seem off topic, an important realization I had a while ago is that I am not a concept. It is so easy to think about ourselves in terms of "I am an anarchist", "I am an atheist", "I am a philosopher" and so on... but none of this is true.

 

We are not the word ascribed to a conclusion of a line of reasoning, rather we are what we value. I value truth over falsehood, I value honesty, I value life, I value peace, I value myself. These are not conclusions, yet empirically actions characteristics we create and cultivate.


  • 1

#14
LovePrevails

LovePrevails
  • 1823 posts

goood luck hope to see you back when you're ready


  • 0

#15
Robert Rak

Robert Rak

    Aubergine Dream

  • 1009 posts

I'm not sure a therapist can help you with this, maybe I'm wrong but I went through something similar due to a controlling mother that would not allow me to disagree with her on anything. I grew up being persuaded this way and that by people who sounded convincing and would feel devastated when someone with the opposing belief spoke of it with grand certainty. The problem was I didn't really know how to tell who was right and who was wrong. Epistemology is the key. 

 

Check out Stefan's Intro to Philosophy Series. Go through the parts about truth and reality and question them. Compare it with everything else you can find about how to know the truth and once you find the answer you will not have to feel insecure again, because anytime you see a new video from Stefan or anyone else you can use your method of determining the truth in order to test what they are saying for yourself. Without this tool you will resort to what you learned from your family: That you aren't allowed to think for yourself.

 

I have been throughout my life (and arguably still am) a follower and very impressionable; when I was young I was not necessarily encouraged to have my own beliefs as I was raised in a religious household (Mormon) and I was always a very shy person. This led me to latch on to anything that my parents believed in (i.e. I was Mormon because they were; I was conservative because they were, etc).

 

On second thought maybe therapy is a good idea. I'm just going to translate from the parents in your head to what actually happened in reality:

 

"I have been throughout my life a follower and very impressionable" = "I have been throughout my life forced to follow and had my critical thinking skills opposed"

 

"When I was young I was not necessarily encouraged to have my own beliefs" = "When I was young my parents did not allow me to have my own beliefs"

 

"I was always a very shy person" = "I was attacked as a child and as a result I fear other people"

 

"This led me to latch on to anything that my parents believed in" = "This opposition of me as a human being led me to adopt my parents beliefs in an act of self-preservation"


  • 3

To make a point of maximizing automatic functioning and minimizing awareness of one's life is to welcome death before its time.


#16
In the belly of the beast

In the belly of the beast
  • 94 posts

I agree with cynicist that a therapist would be highly advised for dealing with your religious upbringing.  In particular, you might want to look for quality therapists that specialize in dealing with people who have left fundamentalist sects or cults.

 

As an aside, this is one of the most impressive FDR threads that I have seen in a quite a while. 

 

I listened to the most recent call-in show and Stef made a great point.  Listening to FDR is like watching sports.  Most people see a sport played before they actually play it and most people listen to FDR before they live according to philosophical principles.  At any given time you're faced with the decision of taking what you've learned and implementing it, or continuing to watch/listen and avoiding taking action.  You mentioned the word faith in your post.  You may want to ask yourself why you are listening to him in the first place?  Take a long hard look at what goes on inside your head when you think to turn on FDR, and whether your desire to listen is coming from the desire to learn principles which you will act on, or if the acquisition of knowledge is a way to avoid taking action.  You don't need to tell me or anyone else what that answer is, but if you're honest with yourself, you'll find the answer and can use that information to better determine whether or not you're listening to FDR for the best possible reasons.  For me, I know that my favorite way to take avoid action is to listen to FDR, because it's more brain engaging than watching sports or television.  I suspect you may be acting the same as me (obviously this could be me projecting).

 

I've decided to stop listening to FDR for the time being and spend that time journaling about ACTION I can take and not hiding my true self from the people in my life.  I've been listening for 6 years and while my inner life has transformed in many ways because of the show, I have been using the podcasts as a distraction from action.

 

I'd like to thank you, in particular, for this insight.  I just spent a few minutes going through the mental exercise that you recommend here, given that I have been listening to FDR for about a year and a half now, and found the results to be both enlightening and confidence-boosting (the genuine, rock-solid kind of confidence derived from making progress in putting action into words).


  • 0