Jump to content

Welcome to the Freedomain Radio Message Board


Sign In 

Create Account
If you're interested in joining the philosophical discussion, click "sign in" or "create account" on the right of the page. If you're creating a new account, please be sure to include an explanation as to why you're interested in joining the message board community. This verification requirement is included to cut down on possible troll and spam accounts.

If you have supported Freedomain Radio financially and would like immediate access to the message board - or - your donation status is incorrect, please contact Michael at operations@freedomainradio.com with your information and the situation will be addresses ASAP.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

LISTEN TO A 24/7 STREAM ON THE NEW FREEDOMAIN RADIO iOS APP!

Want to call into the show? Do you have a mailbag question?


DONATOR ONLY PREMIUM CONTENT - For more information on donator levels click here
66 Philosopher King files - 73 Gold files - 46 Silver files - 51 Bronze files


Three new Philosopher King podcasts added: The Reality of Foreign Policy, The Nature of Compliance and Sibling Personality Traits: A Speculative Theory. Two new Gold podcasts added: Public Support for Spanking and Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming. One new Bronze podcast: Stefan’s Experience with Poverty. If your donator status is incorrect, please contact Michael at operations@freedomainradio.com with the relevant information and it will be corrected as soon as possible.


Photo

Social anxiety show list

Social anxiety Avoidant Fear Anxiety Shy Shyness

  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1
kalmia

kalmia
  • 309 posts
My life has been shaped largely by social anxiety and the resulting behavior habits that have resulted. I have found the podcasts on this topic useful in sorting out this problem for me, but I was thinking it might be useful for others to have a compilation list of all of these shows. I know it is a huge problem with people drawn to these ideas, and it is something that will hold back these ideas. Some may need to be cropped from larger call in shows. I think I will edit this original post with the list. Add known episodes. Include times if known of relavant conversations.
  • 1

#2
crops

crops
  • 41 posts

FDR 2588 - thursday 16th jan 2014 , 3 hour 35min mark. A talk that i used to motivate me to take first step beyond the confines of my character


  • 0

#3
Kevin Beal

Kevin Beal

    Philosopher in training

  • 2234 posts

Anxiety: A Conversation

Social Anxiety

Social Anxiety Part Two

Social Anxiety A Couple Convo

Social Anxiety - A Listener Convo

Dr Greg Siegle Interview - Anxiety, Depression, Autism


  • 6

This is awkward. And I love it!


#4
cherapple

cherapple

    Cheryl Hulseapple

  • 471 posts

A good way to begin is to define, or redefine, social anxiety. Let's collect some quotes from these podcasts. I'll begin by paraphrasing what I've learned from them. It has been helpful for me to understand that the fear I feel may not belong to, or originate from, me. 

 

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]Social anxiety is a strong sensitivity to the fear that others feel, and don't want to understand that they feel, in the presence of your genuineness. When people reject their feelings, you feel them twice as strong.[/color]


  • 2

~*~*~

"As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live."

~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


#5
Kevin Beal

Kevin Beal

    Philosopher in training

  • 2234 posts

Also,

 

Shyness - A Vindication

 

To add to what Cheryl said, a great quote that has stuck with me from this podcast is:

"No she's not shy, you're off putting!" (talking about people calling Isabella "shy")

 

 

I've been considering the form my own social anxiety has taken and I'm reminded of how uncertain social situations feel to me and in the moment I don't even know how to make simple small talk, and the impulse is to castigate myself for not knowing how to handle that social situation.

 

That, to me, sounds like I've had lots of past experience with situations that seem on the face of them normal or trivial, but injected with some form of craziness. Like passive aggression or gaslighting or people who are completely unpredictable. Or maybe even a hurtful rejection from a romantic interest that caught me off guard.

 

The uncertainty is the unpredictable people in my past, and the self castigation is continuing the humiliation that I received.

 

It's one theory anyway.


  • 1

This is awkward. And I love it!


#6
crops

crops
  • 41 posts

i heard steff say 'anxiety is thwarted desire' , i dont know if he was reffering to a specific case in this instance but it sticks in my mind , and it doesnt even make total sense to me yet.

 

Also,

 

Shyness - A Vindication

 

To add to what Cheryl said, a great quote that has stuck with me from this podcast is:

"No she's not shy, you're off putting!" (talking about people calling Isabella "shy")

 

 

I've been considering the form my own social anxiety has taken and I'm reminded of how uncertain social situations feel to me and in the moment I don't even know how to make simple small talk, and the impulse is to castigate myself for not knowing how to handle that social situation.

 

That, to me, sounds like I've had lots of past experience with situations that seem on the face of them normal or trivial, but injected with some form of craziness. Like passive aggression or gaslighting or people who are completely unpredictable. Or maybe even a hurtful rejection from a romantic interest that caught me off guard.

 

The uncertainty is the unpredictable people in my past, and the self castigation is continuing the humiliation that I received.

 

It's one theory anyway.

 

its strange to think off each individual case of 'anxiety' as its own little flavour an form. My ex use to panic about cashier handing over change after a purchase to the point i had to meet her once to do it.

im terrible at small talk , growin up i hated it , an refused to take part in it. now i have little choice ha. i find theres people i can talk to an people i cant , or dont. few people i can let my thoughts out freely in all honesty an weirdness , and theres people i just dont talk to , that honest weird barrier just cant be crossed , and i cant do small talk so i dont avoid them. and then theres the issue of the routine 'good morning' with the people at work . some people i jus never say it too because then ill be expected to say it the next day , which feels to false if i dont even bother to talk to them. The false feeling of small talk is what paralyzes my sense of direction in interaction , jus yak washes over me.  i think its coincidence that thats also what majority of my convos with my mother are like :cool: ,  and/or , developing through my teens an first part of my twenties my social interactions were mainly alcohol and drug fueld/dependant , so my skills ranged from , silly weird idiot talk to all out soul exposing conversation , with little between.

 

also when stood talking to someone , like for at work for example , i find my self automaticly fidgeting with anything around , or light repeated kickin surfaces with my foot , i can see people pickin up on it an mirroring the anxiety. i cant just stand fully engaged in nothing but conversation. i see people talking sometimes with their faces uncomfortably close just lookin in unbroken eye contact an it just makes me laugh , why would anyone want that haaaa  :laugh:   

 

i went to a meditation class a few weeks ago , well out of my comfort zone , was goin all fine until at the end the teacher handed us bits of paper with talkin points on to disscuss , i was on my own an got paired with two elderly men , to talk about things like 'what is happyness' ha. Was so awkward but funny. false talk with crazy buddhists. i couldnt false my way along an proceeded sort of panic'd my way  to say in my loud tone 'my issue with buddhism is that i think it can make you passive towards problems in your life' , which i felt it did to me a few years back. i felt bad about sayin that , cant jus barge in undermining the parade ha. next stop , yoga class , cant get much more mega awks than that :laugh:

 

sorry blabbed on abit


  • 0

#7
Kevin Beal

Kevin Beal

    Philosopher in training

  • 2234 posts

Another perspective, I think, is in looking at anxiety as inner conflict rather than as being synonymous with nervousness or fear.

 

Anxiety is paralyzing and it fits the "freeze" aspect of the fight or flight response.

 

If it were as simple as not wanting to or not knowing how to make small talk, it's doubtful that would cause anxiety. There has to be a conflict there. In my case trying to talk to eligible women my age has been known to cause me to have no idea what words mean, where to put my hands, how eye contact works or whether or not I'm standing up straight or leaning to one side like a human tower of pisa. It happens because I really want to look cool and be desirable, and because I often feel very uncertain of how to even start to do that. The idea that I should just be myself never seems to come to me until afterward! Aargh! So frustrating.


  • 0

This is awkward. And I love it!


#8
cherapple

cherapple

    Cheryl Hulseapple

  • 471 posts

He may not have been talking specifically about social anxiety. But yeah, when you want something, you feel anxiety about not getting it. This could relate to social anxiety because you want to connect to people, but they make no effort – or the opposite of effort (rejection and attack) – to connect to you. 

 

i heard steff say 'anxiety is thwarted desire' , 

Another perspective, I think, is in looking at anxiety as inner conflict rather than as being synonymous with nervousness or fear.

 

Anxiety is paralyzing and it fits the "freeze" aspect of the fight or flight response.

 

If it were as simple as not wanting to or not knowing how to make small talk, it's doubtful that would cause anxiety. There has to be a conflict there. In my case trying to talk to eligible women my age has been known to cause me to have no idea what words mean, where to put my hands, how eye contact works or whether or not I'm standing up straight or leaning to one side like a human tower of pisa. It happens because I really want to look cool and be desirable, and because I often feel very uncertain of how to even start to do that. The idea that I should just be myself never seems to come to me until afterward! Aargh! So frustrating.

 

"Looking at anxiety as inner conflict" reminds me of the podcast "You are not conflicted," which brings me back to the theory that social anxiety occurs when people inflict their feelings or preferences on you, and they want you to think the problem is yours.

 

http://cdn.media.fre...icted_convo.mp3

 

(How do you embed podcasts?)

 

I'm sorry to hear that you experience your frustrations when interacting with women, Kevin. Have you considered that the anxiety you feel may be theirs, or even partly theirs? Perhaps you are meeting women who don't want you to be yourself? I can relate to having automatic-fogging responses to people and social situations. I'm understanding more lately that the type of people I'm around makes all the difference.

 

I grew up around people I did not like, so I learned to manage feelings of dislike, believing the problem was mine. Of course, that would cause "social anxiety," trying to pretend I liked people that consciously or unconsciously I didn't. Putting myself in the company of people I actually like makes all the difference! 


  • 0

~*~*~

"As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live."

~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


#9
Kevin Beal

Kevin Beal

    Philosopher in training

  • 2234 posts

http://cdn.media.fre...icted_convo.mp3

 

(How do you embed podcasts?)

If you just paste the url, and don't make it a link, it'll work. Like so:

http://cdn.media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_1596_you_are_not_conflicted_convo.mp3

 

I'm sorry to hear that you experience your frustrations when interacting with women, Kevin. Have you considered that the anxiety you feel may be theirs, or even partly theirs? Perhaps you are meeting women who don't want you to be yourself? I can relate to having automatic-fogging responses to people and social situations. I'm understanding more lately that the type of people I'm around makes all the difference.

I grew up around people I did not like, so I learned to manage feelings of dislike, believing the problem was mine. Of course, that would cause "social anxiety," trying to pretend I liked people that consciously or unconsciously I didn't. Putting myself in the company of people I actually like makes all the difference!

Thank you, and it is very frustrating. Super frustrating :(

 

I have considered it but didn't have any idea how I could confirm it. But if it's not just me with that conclusion, then I think that you are right about it belonging in part to them. If only because it doesn't always happen (speaking empirically).

 

And simply imagining a situation where a gal doesn't want me to be myself but still wants to flirt or whatever, that has a very different feeling quality than imagining meeting a gal who just wants me to be myself, yay! :)

 

And thanks for linking the podcast. I relistened to the Shyness one after I posted (which has a similar theme), and it's easy for me to forget this perspective. I'm inclined to think that if I have a conflict, it's my own that I'm responsible for, while equivocating between both meanings of the word "responsible". That I'm in a position where I need to do something about it (e.x. leave) and that I've somehow caused it to be a problem.

 

I'm left wondering how much of the anxiety I've felt is in response to a projection or to the present situation. To an internalized female figure or as an accurate reading of the other person. I think that if I were in the moment and had the sense to ask myself that question, I could figure it out by how connected I am in general apart from the anxious situation. By default, I just assume it's my own projections, when I think about it afterward (even if nothing seems to fit that way).

 

I had a dream the other night after thinking about this topic about being drugged by a woman and waking up in a strange room. I go to lock the door to keep her out, but then realize she's in the room hiding (where, I don't know), watching me and I'm terrified. Which is kinda weird since I'm a large man and can protect myself. I have the strange feeling that she's a big part of my life...


  • 0

This is awkward. And I love it!


#10
Adrienne

Adrienne
  • 63 posts

I just wanted to say thank you, Kevin for posting those links and everyone else too. Outstanding stuff. Worth multiple listenings. 


  • 0

#11
Robert Rak

Robert Rak

    Aubergine Dream

  • 1009 posts

I'm pretty sure I've heard Stefan say in one podcast that social anxiety is partly related to self-trust, specifically confidence in your ability judge other people accurately, as well as trusting that your emotions are valid. In that vein, here are a few that I found helpful in regards to social anxiety that weren't mentioned above.

 

FDR349 You Are Not Broken

 

FDR478 Freedom From Others

 

 

FDR663 Unlearning

 

 

FDR666 Be Nice! Part 2: Freedom From Others

 

 

FDR678 Everything You Do Is...

 

 

 


  • 1

To make a point of maximizing automatic functioning and minimizing awareness of one's life is to welcome death before its time.


#12
MayJud

MayJud
  • 10 posts

I love this! Thanks guys!


  • 0

#13
FriendlyHacker

FriendlyHacker
  • 362 posts

My personal experience with this is that social anxiety, depression, catatonia, poverty of speech, irritability, none of that can be considered a disease, it's not a disease to be afraid of sharks if you were repeatedly bitten by them. Since this is not a disease, no amount of medication can cure it, so be very careful about benzodiazepines and etc...

 

You will only stop being afraid of sharks if you stop hanging around the shark infested waters and start hanging around people who actually value and love you. It's very important to find those people and stay away from abusers, because this will make you realize you do not need to be afraid, you do not need to be anxious all the time, and this will enable your self-esteem to recover.

 

If you can't find people who can love and value your feelings, go out and search somewhere else, they usually have the same hiding place, would advise you to even move away if you have to if you can't find them.


  • 2

#14
cherapple

cherapple

    Cheryl Hulseapple

  • 471 posts

This quote sums it up: "What the fuck are you supposed to talk about? [This horrible thing happened to me. The evidence is right here,] and I'm not allowed to talk about it. It's not social anxiety. It's simply being too stuffed with horror and secrets to be able to make any small talk."

 

From #2691 Asshole Proximity Disorder

 


  • 2

~*~*~

"As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live."

~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


#15
kalmia

kalmia
  • 309 posts

This quote sums it up: "What the fuck are you supposed to talk about? [This horrible thing happened to me. The evidence is right here,] and I'm not allowed to talk about it. It's not social anxiety. It's simply being too stuffed with horror and secrets to be able to make any small talk."

 

From #2691 Asshole Proximity Disorder

 

 Yes, I didn't have alcohol in my childhood, but this added clarity for me. The more I sort out about my past, the less anxiety I have around people. 


  • 1

#16
AdamC

AdamC
  • 260 posts

Show list:

 

https://pinboard.in/...social-anxiety/

 

If you are really dependent upon other people for your self-esteem, then that's a big warning flag for healthy people to stay away from you because healthy people don't want that kind of power over you. If you surrender that kind of power over you to others, then you will draw controlling people into your life. That's why self-esteem is the ultimate shield. — Stefan Molyneux

 

If you believe that you're an imposition then you can't be yourself around people because all you're doing is monitoring the other person's supposedly fading level of interest. — Stefan Molyneux

 

If you are self-conscious when you are communicating ideas to people, you are not focusing on the real goal. The goal is not be interesting or entertaining – though they may be means. The goal is to effectively introduce people to ideas. Take yourself out of the equation and focus purely on the audience. If you focus on yourself, that is manipulating the audience for your own self-esteem. If you are afraid of the audience, that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you fear the audience, they will pick up on that. Whenever you give people power they feel irritated and resentful for being asked to prop up your self-esteem. The audience is there to judge the ideas not you. You have to really love both the audience and the ideas and want to connect the two together. — Stefan Molyneux (Premium Podcast: Public Speaking)

 

Self-shaming comes first. Self-attack comes first. Like blood in shark-infested water, self-attack brings attack from bullies. — Stefan Molyneux

 

Retaining your own judgement of yourself sets those around you free. Because if you need other people to validate your choices and your decisions or your existence – if you need them, then you have to control them. When we give other people control over us, we then have to start manipulating them. When you internalize your own standards, you set people free from having to manage you. — Stefan Molyneux

 

Self-consciousness and insecurity is infecting. When we're uneasy within ourselves, it's invasive towards other people because we need them to do something to make us feel better. When we stop using people to make us feel better, we set other people free. Because if you're totally unconcerned with how other people view you, then they're freer just by being around you. — Stefan Molyneux

 

The above quotes speak to a paradoxical view of Social Anxiety:

 

Social Anxiety is the result of *your* unjust infliction of *your* power of acceptance/rejection upon other people.

 

Put simply, by fearing the rejection of (non-FOO) people, you place yourself in a Victim position and them in a "one-up" Persecutor position (see: The Drama Triangle). If they are good people, then you will and should fear their annoyance for having been typed by you as abusive, since that is unjust and thus reprehensible. And if they are bad people, then you will and should fear both them and yourself for giving them the okay to abuse you by typing yourself as Victim (i.e., by self-attacking).

 

Fearing the rejection of FOO people might be better described as Separation Anxiety (a child's mortal fear of abandonment), which is where the adult habit of Social Anxiety (i.e., victimizing yourself by inflicting your power of acceptance/rejection upon others) comes from.


  • 1

#17
Robert Rak

Robert Rak

    Aubergine Dream

  • 1009 posts

The above quotes speak to a paradoxical view of Social Anxiety:

 

Social Anxiety is the result of *your* unjust infliction of *your* power of acceptance/rejection upon other people.

 

Something more clear would be, "Social Anxiety is the result of relying on the judgments of others to validate your choices instead of your own"


  • 0

To make a point of maximizing automatic functioning and minimizing awareness of one's life is to welcome death before its time.


#18
AdamC

AdamC
  • 260 posts

Something more clear would be, "Social Anxiety is the result of relying on the judgments of others to validate your choices instead of your own"

 

Agreed. Thanks for taking the time to make it clear.


  • 0

#19
cherapple

cherapple

    Cheryl Hulseapple

  • 471 posts

Something more clear would be, "Social Anxiety is the result of relying on the judgments of others to validate your choices instead of your own"

 

That definition assumes that social anxiety is self-inflicted. Social anxiety comes from being prevented from using your own judgment as a child, because if you were allowed to do so, it would be a threat to those around you. The source of the anxiety comes from others, not from you. 

 

 

Social Anxiety is the result of *your* unjust infliction of *your* power of acceptance/rejection upon other people.

 

Put simply, by fearing the rejection of (non-FOO) people, you place yourself in a Victim position and them in a "one-up" Persecutor position (see: The Drama Triangle). If they are good people, then you will and should fear their annoyance for having been typed by you as abusive, since that is unjust and thus reprehensible. And if they are bad people, then you will and should fear both them and yourself for giving them the okay to abuse you by typing yourself as Victim (i.e., by self-attacking).

 

That said, I'm now going to say what may appear to be a contradiction: My social anxiety as an adult greatly reduced when I realized that I was doing exactly what I feared from others: Silently attacking them in my head. I feared it from others because I was doing it myself, and I wasn't conscious that I was doing it. Once I became curious about what was actually going on for both me and others, I learned that the truth was much less frightening than the unconscious and the imagined -- once I put myself in the company of good people. The truth, even if it's hurtful, is always grounding.


  • 0

~*~*~

"As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live."

~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


#20
AdamC

AdamC
  • 260 posts

That definition assumes that social anxiety is self-inflicted. Social anxiety comes from being prevented from using your own judgment as a child, because if you were allowed to do so, it would be a threat to those around you. 

 

The block to speaking one's truth/experience is self-inflicted as a defence mechanism and as the result of using one's judgment. But necessary childhood defences can be proven maladaptive during adulthood.


  • 0

#21
cherapple

cherapple

    Cheryl Hulseapple

  • 471 posts

The block to speaking one's truth/experience is self-inflicted as a defence mechanism and as the result of using one's judgment. But necessary childhood defences can be proven maladaptive during adulthood.

 

That is true, but no one chooses to learn to defend themselves in such a manner. Defenses are born of necessity. The challenge as an adult is to learn to put one's defenses down, without attacking oneself for having picked them up. 


  • 0

~*~*~

"As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live."

~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


#22
Kevin Beal

Kevin Beal

    Philosopher in training

  • 2234 posts

That definition assumes that social anxiety is self-inflicted. Social anxiety comes from being prevented from using your own judgment as a child, because if you were allowed to do so, it would be a threat to those around you. The source of the anxiety comes from others, not from you. 

...which is why anxiety manifests itself as a conflict. The double bind of wanting to live your life according to your own interests / values and wanting to avoid attack. (I totally agree)

 

The block to speaking one's truth/experience is self-inflicted as a defence mechanism and as the result of using one's judgment. But necessary childhood defences can be proven maladaptive during adulthood.

And that's a case you need to make :)

 

It's not as if having an emotional defense (for want of a better term) develop in childhood means it's pathological in adulthood. Assholes are everywhere.

 

The false self is forgetting the threat and the adaptation. Pathologizing anxiety could actually be the false self. Especially since pathologizing something doesn't make it go away. And if you're not careful, you could provoking your own anxiety in other people.


  • 0

This is awkward. And I love it!


#23
AdamC

AdamC
  • 260 posts

That is true, but no one chooses to learn to defend themselves in such a manner. Defenses are born of necessity. The challenge as an adult is to learn to put one's defenses down, without attacking oneself for having picked them up. 

 

I agree; it's not a conscious choice during childhood. My point - and the point of posting the series of quotes above - is that it may be a 'choice' (at some adulthood-inducing choiceness level) to continue to use these defenses during adulthood. And, even if it's not entirely accurate, conceptualizing adult Social Anxiety as a choice, seems to be the more empowering perspective: It is unjust, both to myself and to others, to be afraid of people who have *not* attacked me (but I understand where that fear comes from).

Pathologizing anxiety could actually be the false self. Especially since pathologizing something doesn't make it go away. And if you're not careful, you could provoking your own anxiety in other people.

 

Yes, that fearful infliction/injection of anxiety into other people as Cheryl describes above. It was out of my concern for what I was choosing to do others that made me reconsider the idea I was the only sufferer of my Social Anxiety; others were made to suffer too. I guess the 'script' worked exactly as planned to keep me isolated.


  • 0

#24
Robert Rak

Robert Rak

    Aubergine Dream

  • 1009 posts

That definition assumes that social anxiety is self-inflicted. Social anxiety comes from being prevented from using your own judgment as a child, because if you were allowed to do so, it would be a threat to those around you. The source of the anxiety comes from others, not from you. 

 

It's true that the origin is borne out of necessity as a child, but I don't think the definition suggests otherwise. You could append something like, "and it originates in childhood as a survival mechanism" if desired.

 

I agree; it's not a conscious choice during childhood. My point - and the point of posting the series of quotes above - is that it may be a 'choice' (at some adulthood-inducing choiceness level) to continue to use these defenses during adulthood. And, even if it's not entirely accurate, conceptualizing adult Social Anxiety as a choice, seems to be the more empowering perspective: It is unjust, both to myself and to others, to be afraid of people who have *not* attacked me (but I understand where that fear comes from).

 

 I think this is correct. We subsume ourselves to our parents to live as children, but exploring the pattern as adults is a choice. I remember feeling quite helpless before it in the past but as I work on myself the frequency and strength of the anxiety does get lower.


  • 0

To make a point of maximizing automatic functioning and minimizing awareness of one's life is to welcome death before its time.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Social anxiety, Avoidant, Fear, Anxiety, Shy, Shyness