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Should Inheritance be Abolished...?

inheritance dynasty accumulation moral economic family parents

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129 replies to this topic
-34 This post by super.bueno is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#2
Wesley

Wesley

    Self-Excavator

  • 1412 posts

I believe excessive wealth should not be allowed to be transferred. I am categorically against the emergence of dynastic wealth accumulation. . It's totally against the public interest to have millionaires with so much money, that they don't know what to do with it on the one hand while others cannot pay their mortgage, medical bills and support their children.

Anyhow... People should have to earn their way , not have it handed to them. Some might think that this is pure communism doctrine, but its really not at least its not what I meant. 

What I meant was:

Why da fak would some idiot who inherited so much wealth, and believe me I saw a lot of these fuckers, have 5x, 10x, 67x, 1098x better starting platform in life than I do, without a single droplet of sweat? Of course that the right to manage your wealth how ever you consider is undisputed. 

Its not that I am jealous and almost never been,but lets face it I think it unbelievably stupid to have an institution of inheritance. I would like to live in a world where every man or woman is completely responsible for his or her own life , which means that by my standards you cannot be an intelectual , you cannot be a succesful person, parent or professional if you achieved that with the help of your family pedigre, money or influence.

So what do you propose for people who give a gift to their children?

How much would they have to give before this step would be enacted?


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#3
dsayers

dsayers

    collateral damage

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I believe excessive wealth should not be allowed to be transferred.

On what basis? This belief is in opposition with self-ownership.

[color=rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, sans-serif;font-size:14px]have 5x, 10x, 67x, 1098x better starting platform in life than I do[/color]

Let's say we live in a world without X where X is something people would want and assign value to. A VCR, a microwave, a smartphone, whatever it is. How are you going to profit off of this idea? You're going to go to people who have wealth, provide them with a business plan that will demonstrate that you can grow their money for them, and they will provide you with the startup capital you need.

To say "better starting platform in life than I do" is to aspire to be more like them. Which cannot happen without them. While maligning them. It's inconsistent and not at all rational.

Not to mention that a lot of charity comes from the wealthy. Your tainted view of the wealthy are through the lens of statism, which artificially preserves and grows wealth through coercive means.


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Providing value doesn't justify providing anti-value. I won't pay to be censored.


#4
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman
  • 5225 posts

What is the public interest?


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#5
Kawlinz

Kawlinz

    An emcee that despises legalese

  • 640 posts

Hey, I'm taller than most of the population, don't dare come for my shins!


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#6
MrCapitalism

MrCapitalism
  • 1517 posts

Large Fortunes are pretty awesome IMHO. I've spent hours getting lost in seeing where all the money goes. Take Rockefeller and Vanderbilt. These people mostly amass their fortunes by improving the lives of millions of people. They then spend billions (adjusted) creating wonderful castles of homes. Their descendents pretty much spend all the inheritance on more expensive houses, artwork, and high culture. I think in both cases the vast majority of the fortune was wasted in 3 generations. But us lowly people get oil, steel, and a taste of culture. And, no money was stolen in the process. How cool is that? I like the situation much more than the monuments to crime in other parts of the world.


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#7
FriendlyHacker

FriendlyHacker
  • 380 posts

Money = Status

Someone with 50 cats is insane, someone with 50 billion dollars is cool beyond measure.

Status is a form of compensation, people try to cover up their shortcomings by seeming better than they actually are. You can have a small dick, but if you have long throbbing red Ferrari, all is fine.

There is no status to gain in having 50 cats, even though cats are real and money isn't.


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-34 This post by super.bueno is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#9
dsayers

dsayers

    collateral damage

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Everyone should be granted a decent platform to start with.

How? Do you take from those on a "higher platform" to give to the lower? Isn't this theft? Aren't you already making the case that those born into money tend to lack in personality? Wouldn't this make them the lower platform?

 

its pretty easy to calculate what is decent and normal, and what is excessive and sick.

 

Only if you ignore some of the feedback you've received in this thread and stuck to your predetermination.


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-34 This post by super.bueno is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#11
LanceD

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I have a question. What is the public interest? I know that I'm interested in many things, my wife is interested in totally different things. The guy I'm currently working with is similarly interested in different things. So how do we suddenly come to an agreement that we all have a public interest?
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We're not responsible for how we're born, but we are responsible for how we die.

#12
dsayers

dsayers

    collateral damage

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For me a chase for status symbols brough us where we are now...think about it.

In the negative context you're inferring, violence got us to where we are. What you're advocating is more violence.

Do you need more than 25 square meters of your personal space? Do you need more than one car? Do you IPAD, IPHONE, Macbook? Do you really need that ... , and if you need it, why do you need it?

 

If what I have I didn't use violence to acquire, what business is it of anybody else what I have and why I have it? I think this is what is meant by the recurring question of what the public interest is.


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-34 This post by super.bueno is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#14
ThomasDoubts

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Stealing is wrong, no matter who does it.


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---You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.
---If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
---We made too many wrong mistakes.
 

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-34 This post by super.bueno is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#16
ThomasDoubts

ThomasDoubts
  • 178 posts
Define stealing please.

Am I a thief if I steal something that has already been stolen from me long time ago?

: Taking another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of

  it.  Using violence, or the threat thereof, to accomplish the same.

Repossessing stolen property is fine, but one shouldn't project the sins of the father onto the son.  If a black man walks up to me and demands payment from me for my ancestors sins against his ancestors, I wouldn't know what to do but laugh.  I had nothing to do with slavery.


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---You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.
---If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
---We made too many wrong mistakes.
 

---BTC: 1FaLSExuPM69T4ehGyTEXEMYTDPEfT1cDF    


#17
Magnus

Magnus

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Wouldn't it be more ethical and effective to abolish the "stealing" that enables the accumulation of "excessive" wealth (thus leaving the "exceptions" who actually earned it through exceptional performance free to continue), rather than wait until it has been accumulated and abolish the transfer of it to one's children?
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"The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual crime."


-- Max Stirner


-34 This post by super.bueno is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#19
LanceD

LanceD
  • 228 posts

I agree with you, Its true that in reality, its very hard to define the public interest. You know, If I could build a bridge or a car, prevent an enemy air assuly or do a diffcult sugery on my heart then there is absolutely no need for public interest. Define stealing please. Am I a thief if I steal something that has already been stolen from me long time ago?

Building cars is a matter of public interest? Private companies build bridges, governments simply decide where they go and due to ridiculous rules radically increase the price of their construction. The lack of government would not prevent a community from pooling resources to build themselves a bridge. Heart surgery is not public interest. It is the interest of the person who needs the surgery. I don't need it why do you need to drag me into the transaction? Similarly other things considered the public interest really are not. Roads, utilities etc are interests of the communities they service. Not the interests of every person within a region declared a country. My community's utilities are provided by a coop which is a not for profit agency owned by the people it services. It provides the community with good services, great jobs, reasonable prices, very quick upgrades to infrastructure and all profit is distributed back to the community. Coop's could easily replace many of the services government currently provides and in fact many things coops currently do are mistaken for government services. Even defense could be handled in such a manner. If the threat actually exists and you can make the case to convince people of the need it wouldn't be hard to fund it without theft through taxation. We already see this in action as many Americans are happy to see their tax dollars fund our military. Why would this change without a government and this nonsense public interest argument?
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We're not responsible for how we're born, but we are responsible for how we die.

#20
Wesley

Wesley

    Self-Excavator

  • 1412 posts

I should not be held responsible for the crimes of my father. I especially should not be held responsible for the crimes of someone 8 generations back who I haven't even heard of.

It makes as much sense as me going out and killing someone and the state coming to arrest me.

You are very much missing the point as to why these inequalities of wealth exist and also that advocating the use of violence to solve perceived social problems is exactly why we are at this point.


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#21
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman
  • 5225 posts

Everyone should be granted a decent platform to start with.

Where do "platforms" come from?

...peace, love, stability, real education, real medicine, happy, free and careless people all over the place.

Where do those things come from, and who is responsible for providing those things to others?


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-34 This post by super.bueno is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#23
nathanm

nathanm
  • 2010 posts

Super.bueno, if you believe in the value of making it on your own and not taking any handouts why do you care if other people get them?  There's nothing stopping you from living that value, and it's irrelevant if someone else out there is born with a silver spoon.  They won't have the same sense of achievement you will and they might even end up blowing the money and ending up poorer than you in the end.  There's certainly ample evidence of fame and fortune wrecking people's lives. Legitimately rich people don't bother me at all, but for those who use the State to get rich I would share your contempt.

The other thing that doesn't add up is that you want people to pay for the sins of their fathers on one hand but also start with a theoretical 'clean slate' on the other.  If you want to hit the reset button for each new life, then you can't hold the child of an evil slave owner accountable for anything their parents did.

Totally eliminating the transfer of wealth between generations seems counter-productive.  It's a great way to build and progress forward.  If my dad owned a business and turned it over to me after he died am I supposed to burn it to the ground and start over?  What would be the point?  It is of course a huge challenge to give people something for nothing and still maintain the work ethic, but that challenge is not met by eliminating the gift itself.


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"The government always sneaks in when I'm half seized-over and purloins the very thread from my hanky!" - Joad Cressbeckler


#24
tasmlab

tasmlab

    Jeffrey Till

  • 454 posts

If we want to beat down the rich kids' privilege, we probably shouldn't wait until inheritance time.  Why wait until the parents die?  We should strip them before they even eat their first bite of caviar via silver spoon.  They could well get their PhD from Harvard Medical School long before dad croaks.

I sort of get the emotional tug of this idea (abolishing inheritance) looking from the children's point of view backwards (e.g., why do some kids get money) but not from the parents' POV down e.g., "I want to give my children the property I have."

That all before you get into property, theft, or the yucky idea of pumping all that cash through the government for them to handle - even if the government were completely moral and efficient.


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#26
nathanm

nathanm
  • 2010 posts

1. I know, but I asked you why you care.  You didn't answer that part of it.

2. 93.4285% of Americans with a median income in excess of $10,050,248.28 dollars per fiscal year (from 1956-2011, adjusted for inflation) attributed less than 2.255% of their wealth to either direct government largess or waiver of taxes, fees or other federal and state renumeration.†

3. I would continue to provide the same services as my father did to the best of my ability.  But you know, if I found someone who wasn't playing fair by me, then certain things might end up broken, fights breaking out during general inspection and the like, things going missing.  It's just a part of the business you know.

† Unabridged Volume Of Official Facts and Figures (N. Lummox, et al) Volume 27, Chapter 8, Section 27A-1.2, page 347


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"The government always sneaks in when I'm half seized-over and purloins the very thread from my hanky!" - Joad Cressbeckler


-34 This post by super.bueno is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#28
dsayers

dsayers

    collateral damage

  • 2226 posts

You know what the nice thing about 2+2=4 is? If somebody doesn't accept it, I don't have to verbally attack them. I don't have to threaten them with hellfire or a paramilitary platoon.


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#30
dsayers

dsayers

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This is why this is called a forum ( exchange of thoughts ).

Are you exchanging thoughts or asserting truth claims, ignoring challenges to the contrary, and re-asserting those same truth claims? I'm seeing a lot of personal attacks for just being an exchange of thoughts.


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-34 This post by super.bueno is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#32
ThomasDoubts

ThomasDoubts
  • 178 posts
I dont want to offend anybody, but if your grand grand grand father was a white supremacist, who built up his wealth on slave labour , and passed it to you through I dont know 8 generations, them YES, there has to be the way for historical crime and unjustice to be settled.

I have a feeling that majority of you, who have commented on this topic, and I guess you call yourselves libertarians or anarchysts is concerned only with deeper pocket and thicker wallet . My beloved material wealth and ultra consumerism.

Big houses, expencive cars, blondes, small penises this is not libertarianism, this is sick, anti-human behaviour.

What kind of comment is this: Who are you to access is 25 sq/meters enough for someones private space or not. You know for me there are certain boundaries and common sense what is enough and what is excessive.

If you want to live alone in the empire state building,its ok you can do that, but for me you are a complete idiot.

I agree 100% with this.

If the victim of the crime is dead, and the perpetrator of the crime is dead, how exactly can justice be done?  The victim can't be made whole; he's dead.  The perpetrator cannot be punished, nor rehabilitated; he's dead.  It seems to me that you're implying I should be punished for things my father did.  I think you should be punished for everything I've ever done.

I'm concerned only with respecting property rights and the non-aggression principal.  Do you not have a right to your property?  Do you not have a right to be free of violent aggression against you?

Big houses, expensive cars, etc. are manifestations of wealth.  I don't respect people because they are wealthy, but I don't think I have a right to steal from them either; just as they have no right to steal from me.  I have great respect for people who became fantastically wealthy by making the world a better place.  I have no such respect for people who became wealthy through fraud, coercion, or violence.

Personally, I'd prefer 25.5 square meters.  How much should I be punished for living on an extra half of a square meter?

I don't have any experience with having a small penis.  I can't comment on what that may or may not have to do with libertarianism.


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---You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.
---If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
---We made too many wrong mistakes.
 

---BTC: 1FaLSExuPM69T4ehGyTEXEMYTDPEfT1cDF    


-34 This post by super.bueno is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#34
ThomasDoubts

ThomasDoubts
  • 178 posts

You are not voluntarily going to give back what is mine, and what my ancestors had built and saved for centuries...

And you know this to be true about me?

Let me get this straight:  In a thread you created titled "Should Inheritance be Abolished?," you are now claiming as rightfully yours, the property of your ancestors?  Is that right?


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---You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.
---If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
---We made too many wrong mistakes.
 

---BTC: 1FaLSExuPM69T4ehGyTEXEMYTDPEfT1cDF    


#35
Kawlinz

Kawlinz

    An emcee that despises legalese

  • 640 posts

... leave it...


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: inheritance, dynasty, accumulation, moral, economic, family, parents