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Empathy works? Cmon now.....


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44 replies to this topic
-36 This post by STer is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#37
Josh F

Josh F

    ٩͡[๏̯͡๏]۶

  • 1250 posts

Alright man, for my own reasons I need to end our dialogues here man.  Someone apologizing and then re-articulating the same thing they just apologized for in the next sentence hits too close to home, personally, for me right now. I really hope you can come to revisit some of this in a couple days and maybe offer some additional insight if you have any.

 

I am sorry if you are finding the conversation upsetting. And I assure you that I am not trying to "use your history against you" or in fact do anything "against you." In fact, I think it is entirely admirable that, in response to your father's counter-example, you redoubled your efforts to be less abusive.


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-36 This post by STer is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#39
Josh F

Josh F

    ٩͡[๏̯͡๏]۶

  • 1250 posts

I would like to keep this thread going guys, if you have any personal stories of empathy having positive results in online conversations please share!


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#40
Guest_darkskyabove_*

Guest_darkskyabove_*

"no you're wrong! dummy!" approach is completely ineffective.

 

Okay, that's the easy part. Well, easy for me. I can be an arrogant, sarcastic asshole with the flip of a switch, but I work pretty hard at keeping it dialed down.

 

And I get the advantages of empathy, mostly towards personal-type issues, but sometimes it helps in a non-personal discussion to not jump to conclusions when a person might have not framed their argument in exactly the way they meant. Going on the attack solves nothing, and taking the time to understand the meaning, not just the words, can make a huge difference.

 

What I'm not good at, and don't foresee a change, is when a person has presented a flawed argument, been given the chance to clarify, or re-state, and they become entrenched in a defensive posture. Then I'm on the receiving end of the "you're wrong, dummy!" method; which, for me, is an open invitation to release the "sophisticated word thug." :P

 

I'm open to suggestions, but I can also accept that the best option is to simply be extra choosy about what discussions to continue participating in.


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-36 This post by STer is below the user reputation threshold. View it anyway?

#42
Josh F

Josh F

    ٩͡[๏̯͡๏]۶

  • 1250 posts

Okay, that's the easy part. Well, easy for me. I can be an arrogant, sarcastic asshole with the flip of a switch, but I work pretty hard at keeping it dialed down.

 

And I get the advantages of empathy, mostly towards personal-type issues, but sometimes it helps in a non-personal discussion to not jump to conclusions when a person might have not framed their argument in exactly the way they meant. Going on the attack solves nothing, and taking the time to understand the meaning, not just the words, can make a huge difference.

 

What I'm not good at, and don't foresee a change, is when a person has presented a flawed argument, been given the chance to clarify, or re-state, and they become entrenched in a defensive posture. Then I'm on the receiving end of the "you're wrong, dummy!" method; which, for me, is an open invitation to release the "sophisticated word thug." :P

 

I'm open to suggestions, but I can also accept that the best option is to simply be extra choosy about what discussions to continue participating in.

 

Once someone becomes abusive, and I'm no expert here, I find that informing them of their abuse gives them an opportunity to continue the debate by apologizing and changing their tone.  This is not something you owe them, but if it is the right context in the right location you're free to do so.  However, when they refuse to change their tone, you need to move on.  They may persist, but it is a matter of self-respect now if you continue to engage abusive people.  You don't owe them enlightenment or truth or even a second of your time.  We're in dire circumstances.  The government is literally killing people and robbing them as we speak, there is no time to waste trying to heal fatal humans.  This is triage. 

 

I think the above conversation is a very insightful, revealing the motives of the so called neutral debater, and their underlining abusive intentions.  I might have made the mistake of not cutting it off soon enough, but in the context of this forum and topic it seemed worth at least one last attempt at taking it beyond its intellectual mask.  In general, complete waste of time though, except in so far as it proved my thesis.


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#44
Carl Bartelt

Carl Bartelt
  • 265 posts

Very inspiring ThoughtTerrorist. 

 

Don't expect the seed of curiosity about a morally consistent premise to bloom as soon as you plant it, but if done correctly, it will work eventually where there is potential. So even if we don't directly see positive feedback from approaching negative and misguided YouTubers with empathy it might just take them a while to see the truth.

 

 

Also, I just listened to podcast #192 "Curiosity and Personal Relationships" and it might help shed some light on how/why the thread took a bit of a turn for a bit.


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#45
LovePrevails

LovePrevails
  • 1824 posts

me trying it as an approach with men's issues

https://www.youtube....h?v=pUcoDrGvlsc


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