Jump to content

Western Civilization’s Last Stand

The Art of The Argument

Available Now | artoftheargument.com

Freedomain Radio Amazon Affiliate Links: United States - Canada - United Kingdom

Sign up for the Freedomain Mailing List: fdrurl.com/newsletter


This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Matthew Santonastaso

dispute with fellow libertarian

Recommended Posts


I don't come here much since I signed up sorry. I had a dispute with a libertarian I met recently. he got very pissed but I am sure I haven't wronged him. I was hoping I could get opinions on the story. We need to build and maintain strong relationships with each other instead of issues but this guy I felt is being ridiculous.


last Saturday there was a gun show near me that I always go to with my uncle. I have gone so often that I am familiar with most of the vendors. this time there was a new booth with 2 libertarians and a giant sign that said "accepting bitcoins" I talked with them for a while and bought some 22 ammo from them but in our discussion I mentioned that I had a pending order with butterfly labs for 1 Jalapeno. I also mentioned that I was so tired of waiting since they missed the ship date so many times that I contacted Paypal by email and asked for a refund.


One of those guys said can I buy your spot in line. I said sure since 150 refund from paypal or 150 from this guy is the same to me. I said but I have to wait to see what happens with paypal since they could of refunded me at this point.


Monday morning I got a email from butterfly labs containing tracking number. That was unexpected and exciting so I emailed the guy saying hey the thing shipped and I said that I will still sell it to him. Paypal never contacted me back.


He emailed me back first saying that he will come up here to get it and how I wanted to get paid. before I got back to him he emailed me again saying something like you better not be ducking me on our deal.


The product arrived Wednesday and i set it up. his last email kinda pissed me off that I took time to reconsider. I remembered that I actually wanted the product but didn't want to wait anymore and I was trading my 150 refund from paypal for his 150. Since he never gave any money he could of jumped out at anytime too and now I had the product in hand. So I emailed him saying I decided to keep the miner at this time.


He replied with a huge morel rant that I expected because he geared up for it with his "ducking out email" 


I asked my wife what she thought and she said he was just being a baby for not getting his way. I agreed.


I dont feel like I was being unfair. I feel like he was pressuring me to sell it but I know its hard to see things from first person perspective. Since I can only post the story from my side I will try to be as honest as possible with any questions. I can also post emails names removed.



Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

You know you are getting old when you have to look up “butterfly labs” and “jalapenos”.


In any case, I don’t think your argument has anything to do with whether the other guy is libertarian or not. Ultimately, the deal is never final until product and money exchange hands. And misunderstandings often cause huge deals to go up in flames.



I emailed the guy saying hey the thing shipped and I said that I will still sell it to him.


You did agree to sell and then backed out. By backing out, you might have caused him some kind of damage. Let’s say, he already found someone to resell it to for $300, so technically he is now out $150, and he should be able to seek some kind of compensation for that. Although, he should have considered that the probability of completing the deal was not 100%. Provided that no such dependencies developed, and both of you are not worse off as the result, than that is it…


People are allowed to change their minds – there is no moral ground around that

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for reading and replying


I felt it was ok to back out because we just talked about it the other day and we exchanged no money. its just his huge email replay made me think I was way in the wrong or something. 


continuing to offer reselling it after receiving it was a mistake on my part. I understand your point about damages. 


Thanks again for reply. I will be more careful in what I say in the future. 

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

You didn't stand to profit monetarily by offering him the item. I interpreted it as a gesture of kindness and could have been an overture of friendship. You were just being nice.

Unless you misinterpreted his "ducking out" email, he wasn't accepting the gesture, just the item, and he was willing to apply pressure on you to get the item. That is not nice or friendly and that would have negated my desire to do him the favor.

It feels good when you can help someone out or please them, but he transformed your favor into an obligation. You're not obligated to do favors. That would totally warp the meaning of favor. You would not have felt good after making the trade and since you weren't really getting any value out of it except for feeling good, he took the value out of the transaction. He took his "money" off the table first.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh thank you I feel much better now. I always try to be nice to people so this kinda thing never happens much it was kinda a shock. I felt bad. So bad that I came here for help. Your right though I was just letting him have it for the money I could of got from paypal honestly the item sells for more now and you have to wait for it. I wanted to be friends.


I didn't think of it that way that the value of the transaction for me was removed once he put pressure on me but I think your right.


I don't get out much with work school and married life and most people I run in to are not worth talking with so its exciting for me to meet someone in the outside world like this.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites


Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.