Jump to content

Western Civilization’s Last Stand

The Art of The Argument

Available Now | artoftheargument.com

Freedomain Radio Amazon Affiliate Links: United States - Canada - United Kingdom

Sign up for the Freedomain Mailing List: fdrurl.com/newsletter

Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'manipulation'.



More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


Forums

  • Freedomain Radio Topics
    • General Messages
    • Current Events
    • Libertarianism, Anarchism and Economics
    • Atheism and Religion
    • Philosophy
    • Self Knowledge
    • Peaceful Parenting
    • Men's Issues, Feminism and Gender
    • Education
    • Science & Technology
    • Reviews & Recommendations
    • Miscellaneous
  • Freedomain Radio Media Content
    • New Freedomain Radio Content and Updates
    • General Feedback
    • Freedomain Radio Show Lists
    • Technical Issues
  • Freedomain Radio Listener Corner
    • Introduce Yourself!
    • Meet 'n Greet!
    • Listener Projects
    • Community Reference Information

Find results in...

Find results that contain...


Date Created

  • Start

    End


Last Updated

  • Start

    End


Filter by number of...

Joined

  • Start

    End


Group


AIM


MSN


Website URL


ICQ


Yahoo


Jabber


Skype


Gallery URL


Blog URL


Location


Interests


Occupation

Found 18 results

  1. Etwa

    Under emotional Siege

    I wanted it to be over. All the lies and manipulation. I really though after elections it will be different. I watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhU8wJ3UZww and went on twitter (accountless) to check it myself ... clicked a few Twits and almost all coments are negative. Are we really being emotionally manipulated ? Am I the only one with emotional roller coaster? I know MSM is fake and lies, but I got a sense that certain forces are pushing and paying shills to go to non MSM sites to spread negativity and lies. I spent some time lurking on 4chan the last year ... and according to some people on 4chan. The board is under siege. Before election they claimed it was organization CTR (Correct the record) and now they are rebranded as CREW. Sometimes I feel that FDR forum is the last place with no paid shills lurking and spreading lies. Is it just me ? Can anyone of you guys have similar experiences on other social platforms ?
  2. This is just sharing some recent reflections from some experiences over the past year or so... of course any feedback is welcome. I have been using Peaceful Parenting with my children from day one. I didn't know there was a name for it. They were both born at home so I was already in the 'alternative parenting/birthing' circles to pick up on some of this stuff. But my children are being raised with the standard of friendship that includes choose friends by virtue...not necessarily proximity. This has been EXTREMELY challenging as we anyway live in a very small remote village so..... you kind of make due with what you have. But I try to make every experience a learning lesson as naturally they will bond with their peers due to proximity. But we have friends elsewhere, chosen by standards of virtue and their parenting etc. I often hear parents or even daycare caregivers ( I used to work in the daycare) say to the kids who aren't abiding by the demands of the moment, "oh.....well you aren't my friend anymore if you don't....." or "well I'm not going to be your friend anymore if you don't...." I was floored. I didn't call it out explicity to the caregiver, rather offered a substitute that has proven effective to me when interacting with the children. So they repeated the desired behavior towards the child to achieve the desired result from the child but without the 'why'....if that makes sense. Like, they didn't have context as to why this approach is not only effective by WHY it's essential NOT to do the other approach which may prove 'successful' in the moment from time to time. Emotional manipulation. My kids are (almost 7 almost 9) and I noticed a few of the kids would use this on my kids if my kids didn't bend to every whim of their peer. My kids are raised to not budge to peer pressure simply because of these manipulation tactics but...they are 7 and 9 afterall and it will happen as the pressure is too much to bear for that age and I don't blame them for caving from time to time. Just try to arm them with more ammo so-to-speak. But the major problem is it is SOUL crushing to my kids to hear this from certain peers who they do consider to be their friends. They have come home completely devistated to hear this ridiculous sentence from their 'friend'. We have had many talks about this together. I confronted one of the peers and their parents directly. The parents could care less so since then, I confronted the daughter directly. I explained she is either a friend of my daughter or she isn't. It cannot be conditional on whether my daughter does what she (the girl) wants or not. The daugher listened and it turned more into a 'lecture' but that is how this girl is raised...only with hitting and yelling so I kept calm but assertive to give her a differnt example of how to settle disagreements. Since then, that particular issue of 'you aren't my friend unless you...' has been put to rest but the girl uses other manipulation tactics. It's a challenge since I try to simply show examples of this to my daughter without giving her the conclusion. She is still young...my son is starting to get it more easily now being almost 9 and we revisit this topic often. So I will continue with my daughter and hope she will naturally grow apart from this girl. I noticed that when my daughter plays with the children who use this manipulation (and others) she always comes home crying. I tell her it breaks my heart to see her cry after playing with friends and I am sure and can see her heart is broken. She always agrees but a few days later wants to play with them again. Sometimes I allow it and sometimes we recount the prior experience and choose a more positive alternative as there are 3 other friends that she consistantly has a 100% positive experience with. I sort of see it as a 'dance with the devil' for my daughter in her desire to occassionally want to interact with the manipulators. I never want to tell her NOT to be friends, as a demand, but I make my case as to why it's not the most productive and pleasant experience for her and of course when she returns home, for me and the family who see our loved on so hurt and heartbroken. Because she is the younger of our two kids.... it's taking her time to absorb this. Her view...as with my son at that age and many other kids that age is they want to be friends with EVERYONE. and it's so innocent and true! So I try not to enforce it and try to give alternatives and explainations whenever I feel uneasy. I have had discussions with some of the other parents about this and tell them what their children say f and how it affects my daughter so terribly. They don't take it as serious as they should so I just find ways to avoid them interacting whenever humanly possible. When children play at my house, I observe and stay in 'orbit' but let them play but always am aware when things escalate or provocation is attempted and I step in . The other mom just likes the convenience of how nice and fun my daugher is, of course, and feel like they can be hands and ears/eyes off when she is at their house but it's too much to bear for her. She holds it all ine until she returns home and explodes. I have confronted the mother several times before I simply convinced my daughter to stop going there. I asked the mother that if my daughter is playing and they want to invite a particular peer that gives her problems, to at least call me or send my daughter home. She agreed and complied a time or two and so I trusted her. But later I found out (when my daughter came back distraught) that the mother broke her promise and didn't even confront me. I confronted her and she sort of turned on me saying that it's the WORST thing to tell a child they cannot play with another child. For her friendship is the most important thing...bla bla bla. I told her, for me too and I don't tell my daughter NOT to play with anyone. We discuss the experiences she has and preferences. I explained to the mother that I don't want to control how she runs her house but I don't think it's much to ask to send my daughter home or call me when the other peer shows up and the children don't need to know a thing and it's not making a big scene. Anyway, not to get into every minor detail but this mother IS one who says to her kids in a pouty voice, "well i'm not your friend if you don't...." and I have confronted her and she blows it off like it's no big deal and even when her son says it to my daughter and it devistates her and I confront her she apologizes and says she will talk to him but I tell her.... but if you keep using this phrase on him.... talking to him not to say it won't change anything. She doesn't really respond to that and gets 'pressed lip' and short with me...to no surprise. But today I was at a store, alone and saw a mother with her daughter and grandaugter who couldn't have been more than 3 years old and the grandmother told the young tot... 'no you say? Well I can't be your friend anymore'. And I almost collapsed. My heart sank so deep and the look on the young girl's face was crushing. I thought...gee GRANDMA..... what if in 18 years a boy says that to her when she refuses sexual advances towards her..... would her compliance make you satisfied then? Like it's shocking how people don't extrapolate these repurcussions of things they say so casually but consistantly and ...AND ....they don't even notice the look on the child's face. Like it was a meaningly phrase and moment for the grandmother but the girl...barely 3 yrs DEFINITELY internalized that moment...you could tell on her face and I was a stranger 3rd party to the incident.
  3. Channel Topic: Navigating toxic relationships Format: Monologues pinpointing manipulative behavior through personal stories, using terms associated with disordered personality. The subject matter is very very serious, but he manages to make light of it all and he is one of a kind. Needless to say, I don't agree with him in everything; he's not entirely philosophically consistent but his ideas and flow of presentation are brilliant and have helped me tremendously. In an incredibly head-tripped stressful time for me his videos helped me to navigate toxic relationships and isolate horrendously toxic behaviors in manipulative relationships. He's helped me as I learn to identify and treat those behaviors as seriously dysfunctional. These are my three favorite videos from his channel, I hope you find the information and his personal insights to be of help or use to you. P.s.: His voice will grow on you! P.p.s.: thank you Sacha Sloan on FDR and YouTube for recommending his channel to me!
  4. I found this book and it's absolutely mind-blowing. It's like someone took a chunk of Stefan and put him in a Dane. The book is about the psychological manipulation of collectivism that has Scandinavian countries in its tentacles. I think this is really important because one of Bernie Sanders's main talking points is "Ooooh look at Denmark they're the happiest country in the world! Socialism!" and this book pokes some serious holes in that commonly held belief from the eyes of a red-pilled Dane himself. The site where you can get the PDF or audiobook is http://manipulism.com/
  5. Please check out more of my videos about 'Counter Manipulation Adaptative Stratagems' at https://www.youtube.com/c/sachaslone Counter Manipulation should not be confused with hostile aggression(reactive) or instrumental aggression(proactive). Environmental survival adaptation is not rooted in aggression, because evolutionary adaptation is not exploitative, desire based, or meant to harm. 1.) Hostile 'reactive' aggression is fear and anger based with the goal of causing emotional and/or physical pain . 2.) Instrumental 'proactive' aggression is pre-planned and motivated by a personal desire to dominate and exploit the target. 3.) Counter manipulation is an environmental survival adaptation that merely confuses the abuser into voluntarily disengaging with little to no harm to the target. Counter Manipulation is different from reactive and proactive aggression because the target is simply adapting to their environment. The target adapts in order to avoid detection, to distract the predator long enough to get away, or to fool the predator into thinking they are undesirable prey. The process of 'adaptation' is not hostile or exploitative. For example, an instrumental aggressor proactively engages with the goal to dominate and exploit for their own personal gain. A reactive hostile aggressor's goal is to harm the attacker emotionally and/or cause physical harm. "Anti-predator adaptations are mechanisms developed through evolution that assist prey organisms in their constant struggle against predators. Throughout the animal kingdom, adaptations have evolved for every stage of this struggle. The first line of defense consists in avoiding detection, through mechanisms such as camouflage, living underground, or nocturnality. Alternatively, prey animals may ward off attack, whether by advertising the presence of strong defenses in aposematism, by mimicking animals which do possess such defenses, by startling the attacker, by signaling to the predator that pursuit is not worthwhile, by distraction, by using defensive structures such as spines, and by living in a group. Members of groups are at reduced risk of predation, despite the increased conspicuousness of a group, through improved vigilance, predator confusion, and the likelihood that the predator will attack some other individual. Some prey species are capable of fighting back against predators, whether with chemicals, through communal defense, or by ejecting noxious materials. Finally, some species are able to escape even when caught by sacrificing certain body parts: crabs can shed a claw, while lizards can shed their tails, often distracting predators long enough to permit the prey to escape." Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia sources: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://www.manipulative-people.com/ http://study.com/academy/lesson/aggressive-behavior-definition-types-signs.html
  6. My newest article about figuring out if your therapy is actually working for you or not. "Today’s question is extremely popular: I’m in therapy, and some people [my spouse, or parent, or friend, or coworker, or partner] say that it’s not working for me. I’m confused. Is it true?" Read it here: http://blog.selfarcheology.com/2016/04/q-is-therapy-working-for-me.html
  7. Hi, I have not posted here before but I have been listening to Stefans podcasts for a year and a half now. I have been listening to two old podcasts (FDR_311_Mother_Part_1 and FDR_422_Maternal_Passive_Aggression) about passive aggressive mothers and what he was saying has really resonated with me. “I don't want to be wary and guarded and fearful of constant manipulation from people who are in my life.” This line resonated with me so much that it has given me the tool to be able to express my relationship with my mother. I am continuously fearful of her manipulation and cannot trust her emotionally, that she does not behave in a way that tells me she recognises that I am a separate and independent human being. I have tried talking with her and telling her that I need her to treat me like an adult, and to help me become fully independent, to which she was dismissive. In general, what her behaviour tells me is that she thinks that I am and extension of herself, and so she has no care about how she treats me emotionally. I have told her that she "does not care how she talks to me" to which she listened to but gave no feedback. Dismissive I guess. She has never taught me the skills necessary to be an adult in this world, and that she hasn't even tried to teach me anything at all about my father (who died when I was 4). Every way she has treated me in the past (before I did everything I could to cut her out) was about her ego. Since I have cut her out, she has not even tried to behave like a responsible parent, breach the gap, and instruct me in life. She has made no attempt to reconcile, instead using manipulative tactics to try and regain control over my emotions. She has done this by playing victim to my siblings and manipulating them into thinking that I have been victimizing her, when I have in fact I cut her out for my own health. Yet, I am very frustrated in that I have woken up today, and had some positive feelings towards her. I don't know why and this is. I should be seriously angry and focusing my attention on myself in order to get myself out of this situation. But no, positive feelings and doubt about my rationality towards this selfish person who treats me like her doll. Her dud child who she thinks she is allowed to play with like a damn toy. She did however a couple of years ago offer to pay for therapy, and did pay for my first session - I stopped it though, deciding this was not the right therapist. I am beginning to doubt my convictions against her in an emotional sense, but when I try to look at this objectively, the doubt does not add up. Am I being vindictive in cutting her out? And can I say that she is a bad mother since she did offer to pay for and did pay for one session of therapy? To me, the negatives appear to outweigh the positives, but I will say, I don't think in paying for my therapy, she was doing it for my benefit. I don't think she cares for me, but is rather using me as a utility to heal this family that lost its father. I think this because a therapist I went too pointed out that I am a "conduit" for this family, someone who feels the entire mood of the family and from which other members of the family look to for an emotional setting. I am so tired of being the family scapegoat and have cut them out mostly, but I am beginning to doubt, and I don't want to end up supplicating to her.
  8. I finished a new video on fake versus real curiosity in relationships, where I talk about about the differences between real and false curiosity in relationships, how "curiosity" can be used as a tool of manipulation, and possible problems related to it.
  9. I made a new video. I really enjoyed creating this one and I'm proud of the result, as I find it to be both informative on the subject of childhood trauma and psychology and creatively fulfilling. It's an analysis of Scarecrow / Jonathan Crane, a character from the Batman universe. Here, we take a look at the character's origins and (d)evolution. We will see how he is a product of childhood trauma and the representation of the cycle of abuse. https://vimeo.com/selfarcheology/circleofabuse
  10. Part two, where I continue to talk about healthy ways of handling differences in personal relationships and of changing people's minds. Here, I share more of my personal experiences.
  11. I've recorded a few new videos. Here's one of them, where I talk about healthy ways of handling differences in personal relationships and of changing people's minds. Part two coming soon.
  12. my father: -"children are these little devils inside. they just want to have it their way no matter what. you can't succumb to their every whim. children try to manipulate us adults into getting what they want" my mother: - "so, you think when you have a child it should be the absolute center of your universe? You should orbit around it like a moon? What about equality?" me: "i don't really know, but i feel their needs come before ours. We don’t need to have children. They don’t choose us. their happiness is more important than ours in the moment except when you feel you really need time for yourself" mother and father: -"you are being an idealist. do you think the world is perfect?" me: "i know the world is far from being perfect. i feel terrible at the moment. let's just stop this conversation right away" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What happened today: we have a little girl in our extended family, she is 5 I think. they say she is growing to be a little manipulator. today when the family came over to dinner and I saw her crying I felt really sad for her. I approached her and asked and asked and asked and finally she told she felt lonely and that nobody wanted to play with her. we spent most of the evening playing, talking and watching "Frozen" together with her older (14 yo) sister. i felt sad because her parents were not helping her. she was left to sob in isolation. that makes me feel terrible. i made a mistake of sharing this feeling with my parents after the party finished. it went south from there. -I feel really sad that she was so lonely and nobody seemed to care. -But her father did. He talked to her. -Yeah, but that didn't solve the problem. When I saw her she was crying. -She was just being manipulative as she usually is. You think he should always be with her, playing and what-not. I bet they spent some time together playing and then they went to the party. The child needs to learn that there is time for adults and has to learn to play with herself. I got angry. i told them that i'm angry and it might be because i feel they are putting the blame on the victim, and it hurts even more so because it's a child. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- playing with her I got the feeling that as much attention as I was giving her it was really hard to make her feel really happy. they were arguing with her sister quite a lot there were new things and problems coming along the way. i think overall she had a nice evening today but it was as she was not fully happy/satisfied. at one point she said she wanted to destroy things because she was angry. i asked her why. she said that it's because she wanted to destroy things. i said, here, you can have this piece of paper and we can destroy it if she likes. she said she wanted to destroy something meaningful to us. i told her she can really tell me what she wants. i might not be able to give this to her but i am going to listen attentively. she kind of shut down. i think she didn't really trust me and that's why she didn't tell me that. i got a suspicion that the truth might be already to painful for her to acknowledge it and she automatically stops. (the truth being that what she is really lacking is great unconditional love from her primary caregivers and they will never give that to her). but it don't really know. she doesn't trust me that's pretty clear. together with her 14 yo sister were tickling each other and playing on the floor, throwing pillows at each other. at one point the younger girl started to cry. she said the younger sister kicked her in the head and that's why she is crying. -no I didn't! you are just lying! -no, you hit me and you are lying! and then when she curled up in a ball with little tears in her eyes and looked very abandoned and sad. so I asked her: -so, you feel hurt because your sister kicked you while we were playing, it hurt and now she says she didn't and she is calling you a liar? and you would like her to acknowledge that - even though unintentionally - she caused you pain? - yes. -she's lying! she is not being sincere. she is not really crying right now, just look at her. --------------------------------------------------------------------- i don't know what my father wanted to say when he said i am an idealist (because he uses this stupid devoid of meaning language) but I know when I hear that my little cousin is manipulative I feel really hurt. Another thing is that I can't accept the notion that maybe some children really are manipulative and evil and they would just ruin us if we fulfilled their every need. Doesn't sit well with me. Even though, you know what, I actually started to feel that my little cousin is really hard to satisfy. As if she were a little black hole for attention. But that didn't make me angry at all, it made me a little sad because I want to see this little child happy. i also feel quite overwhelmed when I talk with my parents about this. i feel worse after every conversation. and they feel worse, it's not productive. i can't really fight them with logic and i don't want to anyway. i need not talk to them about how children are or are not. and politics (what taxes are or are not). and religion (if woo-woo science works or not). I know it's not healthy for me to be living with them. And I don't live with them anymore. I just came home for Christmas about two weeks ago, and we've been getting into these stupid squabbles about stupid shit since then. And from time to time I just snap and tell them how I feel about this or that thing. And I always regret it. It's just that sometimes I feel so isolated being with them, having to keep my mouth shut, when there is a world of thoughts running through my mind. I need to be real sometimes and that's when I get into these stupid fights. Eh. To sum up: I feel it would be better for the child if the parents really were there for them, because obviously for me this little person looks like they were in pain, for real. i don't like myself being so judgmental about the parents not doing their job properly. but i can't stand a child crying. Questions: 1. do you think you should always react when you see a child crying? is that healthy for them and for you? 2. have you ever come across a child that is manipulative (in a bad, evil, selfish way) ? I feel better just by writing all this down, but I would like to hear your answers to my questions anyway. Thank you people.
  13. Due to the fact that manipulation deals with controlling someone by either lying to them or exploiting them in order to get what you want, it would seem that you are initiating force. Especially if you are using abusive tactics to manipulate. I would love to hear what the community thinks. Thank you for reading and have a beautiful day!
  14. My newest video on how people become unmotivated and unaware of their true feelings and interests.
  15. My newest video; an example of a narcissistic father and a narcissistic person in general: http://vimeo.com/selfarcheology/father
  16. This could cover an entire show but I'll try to summarize the best I can... I come from a broken family with 4 siblings. I'm the second to youngest. My two older (bro and sis) are dependent on drugs and have 3 children of their own. My mom, who is now single from her second divorce and lives alone, is the main reason I struggle with my decision and why I believe I am writing.It wasn't until I had my first son (now 5) that I noticed a dark/negative side of my mom. Long story short, I suddenly realized that my mom was class A manipulator and perhaps the sole reason for the perpetuating turmoil in my entire family. Once my perspective changed from child to parent, I started seeing things differently and began to question my mother's judgment as a parent, then as a person, and the epiphany hit me. She had been maniputaling my ideas/thoughts/judgments of others for my entire life. Then I read this book from Jay Carter – Nasty People: How to Stop Being Hurt by Them Without Becoming One of ThemThis book was an eye opener for me and helped me realize just how much I had been affected by manipulative people around me. It also forced me to address each relationship I had with my sibblings and mother on an individual basis, instead of just going along with everything just because we were a family.Listening to Stefan's podcasts really opened my eyes too. Thank you, Stefan! They helped me to simplfy the idea of just how easy and how free we really are to make our own decisions and do what is most healthy for ourselves (in my case, my children). Stefan taught me/us that parents can be fired! There is no law or agreement that strictly forbids you from "firing" your parents. Pretty empowering!Without going into all the family drama, all I can say is that nearly 4 years ago, I made the decsision to "opt out" from my family, entirely. I didn't want to choose who was acceptable for my children and who was not. Instead, I just opted out from all of them.My life and my health has improved tremendously since I made this decision. But the question now lies ahead: What do I tell me kids? I don't want to talk bad about my family. I don't want to manipulate my kids by feeding them my opinions. But they are going to ask me the who, what, why, how come? Its something for me to be thinking about.My oldest son is 5 now. He has a close relationship with his grandma/grandpa on my wife's side. He hasn't asked yet about my parents. And I haven't thought about it much (probably because thinking about my family causes me grief)....and I can't think of a better group to ask for advice. In other words, I would much rather be giving someone else this advice For those wondering why I haven't mentioned my father. I have two - both were abusive - zero relationship with either. My mom left my real father when my oldest Bro was 10, sister 5, me 1. The step father came into the picture when I was 4. He was verbally and physically abusive and raised me until I was 17 when I moved out. I'm 35 now so good riddance there.
  17. Well I had a run in with my mother today... I gauge my frustration/anger about the same as burning a piece of toast - so that's good. Anyway, she's a hard core manipulator who I've recently extricated from my life. We had a short conversation the other day about why I was doing this to her and I simply said "because I'm tired of all the manipulation" and walked away. So today I run into her and say "Morning" in a cordial and reserved way and it starts... "{hmmf} Hi. You know I'm still really upset that you accused me of manipulating you, that really hurt me. I have never manipulated you in your life, but if that's what you have to do to justify exiling your mother from your life then go ahead. Unlike you I have thick enough skin to handle it." Here's where I'm pretty sure I made my mistake, I got drawn into explaining my actions to her - something I know I have no obligation to do. ME: "Well you do manipulate. This conversation, all the times you accused me of not caring, etc... You do it to get an emotional response from me - that's manipulation." FOO: "That's not manipulation, that was for attention. I felt you pulling away from me; which you have every right too - it's your life. I just wanted your attention so you could understand what you were doing to me. That's not manipulation... You forget, I was in the mental health field, I know what manipulation is." ME: "It is manipulation. If you felt there was something wrong with our relationship you could have just talked to me." FOO: "I didn't do it intentionally - therefor it's not manipulation. Manipulation is when you intentionally do those things. Don't you know how upset I am with myself for doing those things? Then you go and make it worse by exiling me from your life. You're the only thing in this world I care about and to not be in your life really hurts me." ME: "Well then you should strongly consider therapy if it's that important for you to be in my life. Until then I have somewhere else to be." And I walked away. I would like some input on how I handled that. I know I have to work on a few things because there should be no reason for me to feel compelled to respond to her. I'm assuming it's just that it's too fresh and there's still some part of me left that wants to placate and sooth the soon to be unruly monster. Any tips for how I can handle things like that better? I'm a nice guy and have all the tire tracks over my back to prove that - it's hard for me to simply ignore her or dismiss her - but I'm working on it. I just don't want to feel like a jerk afterwards. Lastly, while I'm very suspect, is there any validity to her statement that it's not manipulation if it's not intentional? The effect is the same so it's not like I'm going to run back to her with open arms, I'm just curious if there was anything that came out of her mouth in that conversation that wasn't meant to manipulate. Thanks
×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.