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Western Civilization’s Last Stand

The Art of The Argument

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gavstone21

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  1. Wow! I was expecting it to be cheesy, but I would not be suprized if I heard Love Like You on the radio. Nice
  2. What we just did there highlights exactly why I am on this site. Thank you very much. I think the reason for this development not causing much discomfort for me is the fact that I'm already pretty pessimistic about the West's whole situation, and I have not personally experienced the freedom people like you are unwaveringly defending, considering I'm still at the will of my parents and the public school. Then again, I can imagine myself in the future as a business guy getting screwed by some sadistic bureaucrat with the voice-tech. I still value the little freedoms I have enormously, so I definitely understand the shivers. Thanks -Gavin
  3. Right after that I checked out Lyrebird, I realized its simplicity compared to what you mentioned. - I agree that there is something very scary in someone wielding that power within the state defined corruption of our world, an inevitability that does make me a little uncomfortable. I think you are rational in your fears of which I agree, but I definitely think that there is comedic potential in this technology. Can't subdue the technology, hopefully but probably can't prevent the collapse of the west of which this technology will contribute to, but I am going to get some laughs out. Do you think my humor minimized your valid concerns? I did read you saying " Oh, and I hate socializing or jokes with virtuous people. "...It's very tiring to be constantly impressed and feel truly inspired while part-taking 'connectedness', real-time. (At least, that's what I had concluded from seeking it continously. I am being difficult... :-} )" So more specifically, is this a personal distaste for my humor, or is it a criticism ( Very fine if it is; would be good self knowledge )? I can laugh at jokes about murder, does not mean I think its moral. Thanks
  4. Lyrebird? Haha in the future this will make Christmas phone calls so much easier. No more 3 hour long conversations about Auntie's new counters or what Grammy's high school friends are doing! :)
  5. gavstone21

    Advice For Hyper Intellectuals

    In here Jordan talks about how predictive IQ is. Sorry if I misunderstood what you said.
  6. gavstone21

    Butterfly Effect Responsibility

    Amateur here; correct me where I'm wrong please. Barbra Bush met George at Greenwich Country Club's annual Christmas dance. Afterwards those two had a kid who murdered many innocents in the middle-east, and those murders by Bush could have been prevented if only the club did not have a christmas party. Wait, it could have been prevented if the founders did not open that club. Wait, that could have prevented if the founders parents didn't have kids; that could have been prevented if one of the founder's parents decided to move to another state; that could have been prevented if that one guy's aunt's dentist decided to....therefore Adam and Eve ( Or Lucy ) is responsible for the murders of helpless people in poor countries. Although it would make for an entertaining movie, I don't think morality works that way. The essential question for determine moral responsibility is "Did you violate someone's property rights"? If not, you are off the hook, because, well, there's no moral responsibility you nothing immoral was done. But, I do think there is another unanswered question you are poking at, "If you did violate property rights how responsible are you for the harm?". I first want to make a distinction between moral justice and aesthetic justice. Aesthetic justice is not set in stone and is more economically subjective. According to Stefan justice is paying a victim just enough to bring them back to the position they were at before the time of the violation ( Moral or economic in this case ) with a little extra for the inconvenience. I think this is a great way to organize where we lay forgiveness; however, I don't think that it's a universal way to view moral justice. For instance, touching someone's shoulder, an action we normally have implied consent for, is a violation of property rights if no explicit consent is given. Like @barn mentioned, harm is subjective to the individual. For one man, it may be nothing, for another who has a rash on their shoulder it could be quite painful, and for another to have a past molester touch them on their shoulder could be traumatizing. So the question is, in moral situations, is one responsible for subjective harm or just the violation? I think in Aesthetic justice, non-binding, you are to pay enough to neutralize harm, but in Moral justice the victim has only the right to self defense. Let me further explain: Imagine we have the guy who has the 'sensitive' shoulders. If I violate his property by tapping on his shoulder and somehow cause him an immense amount of pain, does he get to extract every penny I own? If the pain is greater than a monetary amount, do I have to donate my shoulders, pay for therapy, sacrifice my life as a body guard, give him my wife? Doesn't seam rational to me. I don't think moral justice is revenge either. I mean, if a guy hits my only son and somehow that causes me to become morbidly depressed, do I get to hit him, for assault?? It would seam to me that moral justice has to do with self defense in the moment. If a guy puts his hand on your shoulder, you have a right to push him away, just enough to stop the violations of property. If a guy is raping your wife, you are aloud to beat him out of your house. I think that is moral justice. Of course I believe any economic or social consequence could be yielded to anyone, more specifically, and probably, a rapist or assaulter, and we can interpret that through the lens of aesthetic justice. We see examples of that in Practical Anarchy, like where the murderer is ostracized. ( Also I understand that my theory would be in opposition to the current civil court system ) Based on those principals let me address your specific scenario ( With humans if you don't mind ). A guy hits another guy and causes him to limp, and that guy, because of his slowness, gets hit by a train and dies. Aesthetically: Many things could happen, but I think the guy who hit the other guy would probably be pressured, not morally required, to make it up to the family or something. This is up to the economic conditions/various subjective feelings of the time, place, and people. Morally: The violator is morally responsible for causing a limp, not for the victims death. There's not much more the victim can do morally, or can do as far as violations of property are concerned. Please tell me if I answered the question accurately!
  7. gavstone21

    A Quote from Stefan's Podcasts

    Its like the communist who drinks coke, has an iPhone, and lives in a house without fear of getting murdered.
  8. gavstone21

    Madonna and Culture

    Vogue, Madonna 1990 Music Video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuJQSAiODqI Just Music With Lyrics in Description- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_MgPK_9bcM * I'm not providing too much cultural/moral opinion. This is just my analysis. Vogue- the prevailing fashion or style at a particular time. (Dictionary) Madonna Ciccone, American musical artist, pop-queen, dancer, actress, and entrepenuer has been in the entertainment industry since the early 80s. She has won countless awards including Grammies, MTV Music Video Awards, and Golden Globes, being the highest grossing female music artist of time. Her cultural influence is far reaching, making her a great artist for study to understand the zeitgeist of the time. Vogue, released as apart of her I'm Breathless album in 1990, reached number 5 on the Hot 100 with the song's catchy tune being sang across America and played in every club as the 1991 American Music Award's Favorite Dance Single. Setting the stage for the 90's unique club style, the song combined elements from 70's disco, contemporary beats, and electronic house. Some even say Lady Gaga's "Born This Way" was copied from Vogue with its similar disco beat and electronic undertones (Gaga denies these claims). Viewing the song in 2018, Vogue reveals Madonna as a post-modern artists and contains common cultural themes that can be seen as effects of 50s America's cultural decomposition through the 60s, 70s, and 80s. It highlights the exponential changes in philosophical values and showed a country in awe at the unknown it was moving towards. Vogue, a style of House dance, was popular in the black and latino homosexual community during the 70s, and 80s, featuring wide arm movements and energetic wrist twists, was used by club drag queens to throw "shade" at other queens. In the video, which has as much significance as the song, Madonna does include her largely hispanic, black, gay, dancers. In the late 20th century, the gay community, especially the colored ones, were some of the lowest on the social ladder, and considering the lack of straight white males, this choice to feature the cultural periphery was intended. The "low culture" was juxtaposed with the class and elegance that would be normally found in the early 1900s mid-atlantic, mainstream high-class, fancy, relatively conservative "high culture". To convey this, Madonna filmed her music video in black and white and had a lavish set design including a spotless mansion filled with various modern paintings and statues. This high-class 1930s/40s design was furthered by the glamorous clothing of the dancers along with the dusting of shiny furniture by archetypical early 20th century maids. The combination of the gay, colored dancer's vogue moves and the appeal to the luxurious with its set and "fabulous" dance style, caused the elevation of the low to the high; soon all classes across the country were voguing. Escapism was a common emotional theme of this song, and rightly so considering the adversity faced by the social outcasts of that time. She directly states this with "You try everything you can to escape/The pain of life that you know" and "If the music's pumping it will give you new life/You're a superstar, yes, that's what you are, you know it". The escapism does not contain any concrete values; opposed to a darwinian avoidance of pain and immersion in artistic spirituality contrasting that of "down to earth" traditional Christianity and Americanism. The conservative culture is again fought with the lyrics, "Beauty's where you find it/Not just where you bump and grind it", suggesting the subjectivity of beauty opposed to a culture considering beauty to be quite objective as seen by the feminine beauty standards of the 50s. Madonna then has a speaking part where she mentions the extravagance of golden era Hollywood stars including Jimmy Dean, Bette Davis, and Grace Kelly. This is again trying to indicate upperclass, cultured, traditional America as an unfounded class construct that everyone could be apart of, where anyone can be beautiful, and is not exclusive to conservative "white" America. This was an art showing how the dirty proletariat could transcend America's class constructs and be fabulous. Many tenants of post-modern philosophy, or the lean toward subjective interpretations of reality and the burning down of traditional moral values, were embedded in the hit. Firstly, the music video being considered in the realm of serious artistic critique, signifies a transparency between what type of art is actually considered art by the cultural elite, as music videos were considered simple entertainment for the common-man. The imaginative elegance the song provokes, along with the feeling of "heightened importance" and escapism the electronic tones and disco beat (Listen to the song) release also add to this idea that there is not a true difference between a gay, black guy and white, blonde star in ability to be "vogue". The set design and dance style continue the juxtaposition and push the subjectivity of beauty and class. Culturally, this song occurred after the rebellious 60s where common western values were thrown in the fire, groups of differing cultural identity visibly emerged, and sexual behavior was liberalized. The 90s contained great deconstructionism of conservative values, and objective ideals of morality as seen by the popularity of the song which tried to hammer the exclusivity of high-culture through its inclusion and parade of the "dirt" in the culture. Madonna was definitely marked as a post-modern artist by the song, and speeding past the common cultural drift, she definitely continued to embrace more and more liberal subjectivism. No matter the cultural dispositions, anyone can get on the dance-floor to this hip beat, or maybe the song can be protested by conservatives now for its opposition to traditional values.
  9. gavstone21

    Hello from North Dakota!

    Yes, thats why I asked if he lost interest. What he did say, is not that he does not like it anymore, but that it is not important to the world. I am not assuming very much, which is why asked those questions; but I wanted to get clarification on why he quit. His cited reason was that it is not important to the world, but to me at least, that does not seem very true. But my interpretation could be wrong; he could have indeed just lost interest, and by the world losing interest, he actually meant he was the one losing interest. I play the sax too! I have indeed been slowly losing interest.
  10. gavstone21

    Hello from North Dakota!

    What type of journalism/activism do you want to do? Going to go Michael Moore film style or more just commentary like what Stef does? Your score was great. I could definitely see it as the cover of some action movie or video game. What!? A lot of people, including me, love music. Who the heck is someone to say that something is not important? You obviously have some sort of gift, and with work might do well. Did you stop liking music? Did someone tell you, you suck at it? Or, are you just bad at it? Or do you not see it as a career but maybe a hobby? There are a lot of people who like music and make it apart of their life. Nice piano playing btw!
  11. gavstone21

    Greetings from Prison!

    Thank you all for your continued advise! Sorry it took so long to get back. Last week I typed a long response, and had it ready to send before I had to close the page abruptly and everything was deleted. So I avoided the computer for a week and now here is my responses. Sorry if I sound scatter brained! @barn @Will 001 I had many relationships where I "blended in",and I would even talk differently to each person depending on their personality, intelligence, humor, and moral/political beliefs. This was all an attempt to make friends, but like Stefan said in his recent call in show, when you are hiding something in a relationship, when you are not honest; you have to be manipulative. Their only purpose was to provide me dopamine when I made a joke confirming their own political/moral/religious beliefs. No truth, no debt; just appeasement. This type of relationship is not inherently a bad thing. We sacrifice the revelation of our true selfs all the time at stores, work, and on the streets. So my problem was not that I had shallow, manipulation requiring relationships, but that I called them friendships. I would make it seam deeper than it actually was, but all that caused was emptiness and even guilt. I have since changed their title to acquaintances/public school allies. Now I only spend minimal time with them at school, and never pretend it's not the 3 inch pool it actually is. I have few actual friends though, and I am honest with them. They are not the best out there, and most certainly not the most philosophical, but good for my situation. I don't have to feel that alone. I don't feel a need to filter my speech, because the few people I am friends with not only can understand me, but probably would not get resentful if they thought I was smarter. I don't ever talk in a pretentious or incomprehensible way, considering my friends are pretty smart. Thank you both for the dialogue! @Jos van Weesel I think I will stay in school for the minimal time at least. You are right, there is lots of oppurtunity to probe the system and learn about the nature of our enemy. Although I do respect my anger against the school, I have really not expressed it or even really feel it that often. I just think about how much it sucks to be living not just unexamined lives, but unexamined lies. I always keep my eyes on my future and find peace in that. A quick example of this occurred in the hall, of my crowded school. I guess I got in this guys way, and he punched me on the leg. At first I was infuriated, but then I thought about how much his life in the future is going to suck. Immediately, I was feeling pity not anger. Thank you! @Dylan Lawrence Moore Just recently I found out that they are offering the running start program where I live! I was all on board until I found out that tuition was $5000 a year. I'll just have to make my time here as productive and fun as possible.
  12. gavstone21

    Greetings from Prison!

    Right, and I am a sophomore, 15 years old. Well, thanks all for the welcome! I will make sure to tell you guys more about the current education system and am glad for the rational outlet! Furhter: Spladam, don't apologize for your misinterpretation. It is my job as the writer to convey what I mean. ( :
  13. gavstone21

    Greetings from Prison!

    Thank you for the responses! Let me get somethings clear: I have never been to an actual prison but based on watching prison documentaries, I would rather be at school. So yes, there are much worse things I could be going through and I am thankful I am not going through that. Through my language I was actually trying to be humorous, but I do think that school in principal for me is a prison. I have expressed my hatred for school in obvious ways with my parents and even brought up the topic of homeschool. My parents aren't letting me drop out ( permission is required ). I think I will look into more options as far as alternatives go. As far as my quote calling me the "wisest", I was making a reference to a quote Socrates made:“The ancient Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing.”. What I was getting down to, was the fact that most people in the school just absorb truth through culture. I left that method and found philosophy and then realized how much I don't actually know. That most basic self skepticism is not present in my school which is why I called myself the wisest. Am I the smartest? No. Do I have the most experience? No. It was supposed to be a humorous expression of the me the lone philosophy adherent ( and ancap ) in a sea of people who just will their beliefs as true. I don't know much, but I know how much I don't know...and the state needs to be abolished. I do have some ideas to make my school experience proactive. I have been having conversations with people skeptical of the existing system and introducing them to philosophy and FDR. I try to make school as interesting as possible. Sorry if my original post sounded like a pity plea.
  14. gavstone21

    Hello from Chicago, Illinois

    Ha! Chicago needs to become a separate state, the rest of us in Illinois hate it but have to suffer the consequences of its choices.
  15. gavstone21

    Greetings from Prison!

    I'm in a prison, my crime, being born not having sufficient knowledge to worship the state. I am serving the 10th year of my 13 year sentence without parole in an Illinois public school. Although torturous, I find the institution to be quite, creative, but that would be attributing critical thinking skills to its creators. I hate every humiliating second that I attend the indoctrinating institution. The classes are boring, irrelevant, and ran by pretty mean correctional officers. But I have to say they are developing a great sense of imaginative creativity in me. Oh, not through the arts programs, but through the expression of anger that occurs in my head ( Things which I should not talk about here ). I am angry at the time they have wasted. Wait, it's not just unproductive, its counter productive to my moral, artistic, and yes, educational development. I have talked to boomers about their experience in school and seen movies from the latter half of the twentieth century. Stef is right, its gotten a lot worse. That aside, I really love philosophy. And what I realized about love is that when the object or person you love is hurt you are hurt in a similar way and I am in agony at the sophistry going on that masquerades as philosophy. What stefan has built gives me assurance that there is TRUTH, and MORALITY, and all the other great goods of life. I am pretty inexperienced at philosophy but my experience at school( shudder ) hopefully will give me the life long spirit to fight for the NAP, and peacefully raise my children. I am very thankful for Freedomain Radio for the all the short term escapes and future aspirations I get living in this hell hole. In my current study of philosophy I have realized I am the wisest among my school because I know that I know nothing...and the state should be abolished...and communism has failed every time it has been applied. I am also interested in romantic poetry and think I have an idea of what Keats talks about and love it, but there is no-one in my school whom I can verify my ideas with and just have a conversation. Please message if you share the interest. Also, if there are any other teens ( Or creepy 40 year olds pretending to be teens ) facing similar brain numbing experiences I would love to chat. Suffering is better with a friend.
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