Jump to content

Western Civilization’s Last Stand

The Art of The Argument

Available Now | artoftheargument.com

Freedomain Radio Amazon Affiliate Links: United States - Canada - United Kingdom

Sign up for the Freedomain Mailing List: fdrurl.com/newsletter


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

1 Neutral

About Elizbaeth

Recent Profile Visitors

63 profile views
  1. Apprenticeships in schooling?

    Lol my husband and I talk about this all the time. However it is my pet dream, and he kinda lets me take the reigns. He will become much more involved once they grow into an age where they can do a lot more. By by the way, what do you think of unschooling? I tend to think that kids will be curious and energetic and learn of their own will, but a part of me is skeptical of relinquishing control so totally.
  2. I definitely have no desire to see men be slaves to constant pursuit of sex - I think men are pretty retarded about sex - but I think that a man who engages in the real world, knows how to behave with women, and is interesting and interested and is worthy of sex is a much better man than one who gives his sex drive away to porn. I’m not a guy. I can literally read a book or bake cookies if I feel sexually frustrated and everything’s fine. I would love to see men be masters of their sexual desires. I guess I just really don’t understand how strong it is for most men. 1) I believe it’s wrong to knowingly exploit a weakness of another. I don’t, however, think that’s a strong enough argument for abstaining from porn. I think it harms the viewer enough that it would be in the veiwer’s best interest to not consume it. 2) I don’t necessarily think porn stars are into drugs, but everything I know about women tells me that she’s probably either very detached from her own feelings or feels some deep contempt for herself to have sex so casually without love or commitment. I’m out saying the whole person is without redemption or lovable qualities, but it’s no secret that it creates a lot of hurt and damage for women to share their bodies with multiple people. And how how does one have a boyfriend while also making porn? Isn’t that like an open relationship? I think pretty much the same about animated porn as I do about “regular” porn. I don’t think the origin of it matters as much as it’s effect if the user. I’m not sure how to relate to an urge that strong - maybe it’s an addiction for you? I hope you get some good food for thought out of this conversation. I’m very interested in ironing out for myself the rightness or wrongness of something I will surely one day face with my sons, so I’m getting a lot out of this conversation, too. This seems like the kindest, most sound advice here. Good luck! I’ve learned a lot from this thread and hope you reach a conclusion you’re satisfied with.
  3. I do think that porn is wrong because it exploits people who most likely found themselves in that career due to deep issues, however, I don’t think this is a strong enough line of reasoning. Try to apply the same principle to cars, or coffee, or clothes, or electronics, or food. It is impossible to know every potential harm that comes to everyone involved in a consumer product. Be knowsgaboe where you can, but no single person can should the burden of saving everyone from everything. I tend to think porn is wrong because of my personal experience in relationships. Of course I am a woman and see things from a woman’s perspective, but I don’t think tha discredits my view. As a woman, if you are in a relationship with a man, and you wish to have fulfilling, connected, emotionally and physically enjoyable sex, but he is a porn user, it inevitably creeps into the relationship. There are so many things that are hurtful about it. He has trained himself to get turned on by his favorite porn, and there is little room for me, the real woman, to bring my personality and emotions to the experience because he can’t respond the way he does to his favorite porn. If also stings to realize that you are practically offering up your soul, but he can’t pay attention because, again, he can’t connect unless he is stimulated with his favorite porn cues and that leaves no room for growing older, growing familiar, or growing at all. There is little future. It also feels like a huge betrayal. Maybe not exactly like infeideltiy, but not too far off. The women are on the screen and therefore “not real,” but he’s staring at another’s woman’s naked body - something that would never be okay otherwise - and feeling sexual pleasure from her and the acts he sees her do. It stings sharply, and feels so much like infidelity that it’s quite hard to save a relationship from that. Another thing I’ve seen is that men who use porn tend to generally be weaker. If a man has such a huge sex Drive, and he’s capable, and smart, and charming, then he doesn’t need porn. He is perfectly capable of succeeding with real women and chooses to spend his sexual energy (which I think is the root of a man’s power) improving himself and the outside world. All that sounds pretty harsh, and I guess it is. I have never struggled with porn - while I have a sex drive, porn does nothing for me. It’s really as much of a turn-on as watching the laundry machine spin. But I have a lot of men in my life and I care about them deeply, and many of them have really struggled to know what is good and what is best for them. Men love sex and woman, and that’s ok. I think that’s good. But I think that porn is a threat to everything beneficial between men and women, and I believe it definitely does more harm for the user than people like to admit.
  4. Apprenticeships in schooling?

    Thank you for your questions! They are always so thoughtful! Sorry for the long delay - life and holidays leave me little time to internet. a) This is actually what I have the most trouble with. I am hoping that, if an apprenticeship works out, the trade master or teacher will act as a second father-type figure or mentor. I want my boys to have a variety of "flavors" of good men around them, and I want them to be able to see what's important and universal in manhood (character, beliefs) and what is more individual (some men are poets and some are athletes). However, for me to vet possible mentors, I would have to already know more or less which direction they would be heading. I haven't figured out how I can suss out the situation before I'm actually there. b) I have no intention of shoving this down their throats. I do, however, think that most little boys tend to be happier if they are physically involved with something, and tend to learn better if they have a reason for learning. c) I am pretty much doing what I want to do. My interests in life have been basically geared towards this. I wanted to teach and began classes for it, and dropped out because I hated so much of what I saw. I really am so excited for them to get older so that I can help show them the world. I really really really just can't wait. I am even debating on having more kids, which is saying a lot, because I loathed pregnancy, but to get a baby one must endure months of sickness and ugliness and terrible heartburn. I may dip back into my personal hobbies, or much later down the road try to figure out a larger, more universal solution for education, but I think that my energy can only handle my family at the moment. d) I have read up on learning styles. It's quite interesting, and I can already see how my sons are different, and my youngest is just 5 mounts old. It starts that early. It's crazy. I was very much thinking along the lines of carpentry or smithing. I think that letting them learn about real danger is very important. My son handles what we throw at him (figuratively, not literally) quite well. He also seems to pay attention to me more when I carefully show him, and then allow him to use, something a little above his level. Would you mind telling me what you learned, and if you still use it today? Thanks! Thanks for the feedback! I was actually thinking that, if this were to be an idea we would implement, that it would be good to start it at a much younger age - like 8 or 9. My hope would be that they could be self-sufficient by their teenage years. I think that they would gain a tremendous amount of confidence from this, and that it could be a good, solid, material platform from which they could launch into young adulthood. I do think that school is very boring, and I think that most homeschooling (at least my personal experience of it) is more or less a less socialized, less-strict version of public education. I really want to break the whole mindset that goes along with the 8-hour "work day" of school, while still showing them that work is necessary, good, and valuable. I was thinking that a trade would give them power, and show them how they fit into a larger network of needs, and that if they want more money, more resources, whatever, that they have the skills and means with which to attain them. And, hopefully, while they are gaining success with their trade, they will still be learning other things, but unless they are remarkably stupid, I don't think that I will have to push that on them. I'm fairly smart, and their daddy is super, crazy smart, and most children are naturally curious, so unless I mess up somehow, I would think that I would just need to expose them to different things and be a bumper-guard against possible curiosity deterrents.
  5. Teenage Rebellion: Bad Parenting or "Just a phase?"

    I remember seeing healthy kid-parent dynamics and feeling so sad and angry that I didn’t have that, too. It was a shock. I actually tried dating a guy who had happy parents and a great relationship with his grandparents and sister just to be around his family. I was pretty much the “perfect” child until my teenage years, and then shit hit the fan big time when I started questioning my mom. All questions were met with the attitude of me asking questions = me declaring I hated my mother and everything she sacrificed for me. Then she reacted with what I call “Operation Squelch The Interloper,” where her mission was to destroy this new emerging me and get back her “real” daughter. My only options were to fold or rebel. I have no doubt that teenage rebellion is due to bad parenting.
  6. Apprenticeships in schooling?

    I have been thinking a lot lately about teaching my sons a trade when they’re young. I’m thinking that it would be a good way for them to have a practical fall-back skill, and if I am able to “apprentice” them out to a trade master, then it would give them another male role model. Plus, I kinda want to avoid teaching in a way that is more or less the same as regular public schools. I think there are tons - endless, really - of fun things I can do with them that are fun and exciting and stimulating, but I think, for a good future, the basics need to be 1) how to be a complete man who rules himself, 2) how to think and how to find information, and 3) how to provide for himself. Any homeschooling parents doing this? I would be interested to hear thoughts or opinions!
  7. Well, I said it rather off-handedly, and based it off of a short little news video. He seems really smart and I personally find the byte-sized intro into his theory of the universe romantic and hopeful. And he seemed like a guy I’d like to get to know. So maybe that’s a more accurate statement!
  8. Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?

    I’m glad you were on here too!! Good luck with your mission. The Bible is one of my favorite books - I can’t escape the fact that I was raise with it, and I disagree with quite a bit, but also find so many parts of it beautiful. Christianity is not terrible in the way that some atheists make it out to be. I just hate that, to accept the good parts, you have to also swallow some pretty bad, too.
  9. Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?

    Lolz. My first thought was “Hell yeah!! Woman power!” I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian church and it sucked being constantly reminded that I, personally (and it IS personal), was the reason that all of humans were damned until “washed by the blood.” And to add insult to injury, J had to sit quietly and listen to fat, gluttonous, dumb, unthinking brutes tell me what to make of writing that a)were created thousands of years ago, in a vadsky different culture and context and language, all the while I say there knowing that b) if the translation we used was good enough to base doctrines on, then why was my own ability not good enough to read what was written and draw my own conclusions? It’s rather insulting. Now that my personal injury is aired, I will add something useful. Have you heard of the theories that the story of Adam and Eve was based off of a pagan story, where Eve is a goddess? The Bible has different telling of the story of Adam and Eve, and it’s theorized that the text has either been retrospectively doctored or was originally a convulsion of the Eve-goddess story of the Canaanite pantheon. If I remember right, it was changed to reflect the growing patriarchal society instead of the matriarchal one of the tribes of the time.
  10. The Morality/Immorality of Seuxal Fantasy

    Does it? Not arguing with you, but I’ve not heard this before. Would you explain? This actually scares me quite a bit. I’m glad your partners had good experiences, but most women I know whose men learned from porn generally feel a superficial connection at best. Usually, though, they end up feeling lonely, isolated, and like a human flesh light for their partners to act out fantasies with. I’m grateful to hear this perspective. I have two small sons, so I’m pretty interested in what is good for men and how best to get it. I can’t help but think, though, that it would be better in the long run to not deaden yourself to the sexual intimacy in a LTR. Maybe it would be better to avoid “dick napping” through more exposure to women? Is that crazy? If you’re around them more, than a pretty face is bound to some some personality sooner or later. I always felt a little like that too. I didn’t like it, didn’t want it and felt gross about it, but couldn’t quite say why. My ambivalence changed entirely when I got pregnant. Never felt so wretchedly vulnerable and scared, and suddenly sex was dangerous, and should only be done with love and trust. Trust and openness from the woman, and a protective, committed love from the man. I felt this way because sex caused me to get pregnant, which made me excruciatingly aware that I was vulnerable. If we were in cavemen times, I would have been 100% dependent on him to care for me and for the consequences of our sex. Porn strips that away and feeds into this hunger for sex and intimacy without any of the costs, which are quite real and quite huge (as does birth control pills - I think everyone’s forgotten that sex is not a toy and can often have life or death consequences, and no one seems to understand that it’s so much more than just an orgasm). Plus, any woman I’ve ever talked to feels pretty betrayed if her man watches porn. It’s another woman to his mind - maybe he’s faithful “in reality,” but if his dick thinks it’s real, then he’s filling up on another woman regardless.
  11. I guess I would consider indulgence in fast food immoral if signs of poor health began to manifest, like weight gain, bad mood, bad skin, slow mental processing, low energy, etc. I believe it is immoral to trash a perfectly good thing - destroy a good body with abuse of food, and destroy a good sexual relationship with abuse of porn. Does that make sense?
  12. What about the argument that porn is like fast food? It hyper-stimulates the pleasurable senses in a way that seems unsustainable for any healthy sexual relationship. Whataburger may taste good at 2 am, but it's hardly a way to live if you want any sort of vitality and longevity. Plus, I think porn is more dangerous for men that women. It seems like it robs men viewing it of the desire to go out and "hunt" for the validation and companionship of sex, and pours their sex drives into something cheap. I think a man's sex drive is extremely powerful, and is a huge part of his outward power in the world. I guess porn is wrong or not depending on your goal. If we think it's good for humans to have sex with robots and live only in a virtual world, then I don't see a problem with it. If we think it's good for humans to strive for relationships with one another and to go out and conquer the outside world, then I think porn is detrimental.
  13. Bought the past, present and future self-authoring deal 2 for 1 on sale. Total score. I don't know. I kinda just feel deflated and sorta blind if I try to think about my parents... Like the screen just fills with static and I just can't come up with anything, good or bad. LOL. I have so much to say in response to this!! When you said I should try not to be pretty, my first thought was, "Well, pregnancy did that quite effectively." I went from being feeling very sought-after, attractive, charming, and pleased with my physical appearance to having zero control over anything. Thoughts, emotions, physical capabilities, active participation in 98% of what I found enjoyable were no longer within the realm of anything I could exert personal control over. I was one of the lucky women to get "the mask of pregnancy," which meant that during pregnancy and a few months after my face was spotted like an appaloosa pony. My hair turned into a witch's broom and my nose swelled up. I had some terrible heartburn, and felt like a crummy old man. I had this desperate, emotional, urgent desire to eat everything, but I couldn't swallow more than a few bites without severe indigestion or nausea. I wanted to be that glowing pregnant woman that has taken over instagram, but the reality is that I made the scariest SJW look like a beauty queen. Fortunately for me I returned to normal after each pregnancy, but yeah, I know what it's like to not be pretty lol. The craziest thing, too, was when I went to the gym and tried to fight the pregnancy weight gain, all the guys that I have previously scorned for checking me out suddenly acted as if I had a sickness, and if they made eye contact or acknowledged my presence, they might suddenly "catch my disease." It was both hilarious and really sobering to realize that so few people had been interested in me for reasons other than the most superficial. Second thought I has was, "Men are so dumb." Ok. So men aren't dumb. Men are quite heroic and capable of awe-inspiring things. BUT men are slaves to their sex drives, and will make themselves into fools for something as fading as a face. I understand, to an extent. I think that sex drive is partly what gives a man his power. But as a woman - a woman who wants her beauty to be appreciated, no less - I found it very unflattering and very insulting to know that people were tolerating things that they didn't like, that I was being kept around not for what I was a person (the good and the bad), but for something which I had no say in, no choice or power, and was random. I want my husband to look at me and think, "Wow, I'm so glad that I found this person whom I love so much, and am so happy to be in her company, and how lucky is it that I also this she's the prettiest girl I've ever seen?" But I would feel very robbed and cheated if I found out that he didn't actually like me, my preferences, my choices and desires, but only liked something that is more or less out of my control or input. I think, though, that the only solution for this is for men to take the time to talk with a girl they find attractive, and for girls to be sympathetic to this and not exploit it. But I've tell you a secret. When I was a little girl, I fantasized about a man who would save the world. I wanted a Hero of all Heroes. And of course, in my fantasy, he would love me passionately and deeply and think I was his beautiful jewel and I would gladly be his prize, but he never once gave up his mission for me. If he had, I could not have loved him (in my little girl fantasies). Women love men and need men to be men of courage, conviction, and truth. None of that bows to superficial "goodies" like mere physical beauty. Yeah, I get that, too. I was very bitter towards men. I assumed that men were something to be kept at arm's length if kept around at all, because they were cold, heartless, back-stabbing and cruel, without compassion, and who could do nothing more than use and consume girls to feed their own insatiable egos. But I finally realized that some men are like this, and some are not like this at all, and some are a mix and aren't really aware of the pain they cause. It wasn't until I met my husband that I was even aware of the ways in which women used and consumed men. Once I saw it, it was chilling, and I felt some pretty deep remorse for parts of my past. I think he is, at times. He was actually a marine and had two tours in Fallujah, and wanted to be a marine because 1) he thought he could get girls, 2) he wanted college money, and 3) he had had an abusive stepdad (one of many) who was a marine, and he wanted to prove that he could do anything that guy could do and do it better. Both of his parents have been terrible neglectful and cruel. I actually worked in a day care, a public elementary school, and was an au pair after college. I saw lots and lots of problems in those places. I don't even think a lot of the caretakers wanted to cause harm - I think that actually, a lot of them wanted to do good - but even if they wanted to, the way all of it was set up made it virtually impossible to give the kids the attention, compassion, and instruction that was truly needed. Sorry for not responding to everything else, guys. It was a lot to read and a lot to respond to, and I appreciate all the feedback and interaction.
  14. Ok @barn I’ll respond! I’m enjoying the conversation and I think I’m getting a lot out of it. I find it a little difficult to clearly follow a lot of your thoughts. Maybe I could understand you better with voice and face inflections, but I find your writing format a little fuzzy and unclear. However, I’m not quite sure that I’m getting the response formatting right on my end. Here are my responses to the questions. 1) No, I haven’t told him specifically about the ACE test and/or what it could be used for. I actually think that both of us could benefit from counseling (not marriage counselling, but as individuals looking to learn more and get some personal growth), but I don’t want to just throw “here are a dozen ways to fix yourself” at my husband. In other words, I don’t want to be negatively criticizing him. I do believe I CAN bring it up, but I think I need to be sensitive about how I do it. 2) Well, I usually experience a watershed of emotion, followed by the certainty that I at least now know what needs to be done and I can stop being anxious. 3) I think he would behave as he if currently behaving. I might only add that we would have more “hard” conversations, but if I ignore my anxiety and listen to my instincts, I think that will come as he feels safer in the relationship. Which is why I need to figure out a way to remain aware and cognizant in situations where I want to fall back on bad, though familiar, habits. I originally was fishing around for tips on mechanisms to train myself to do this. @meetjoeblack Ouch. Ok. I totally get it. It’s all too true too many times. I was always definitely interested in my husband. He’s smarter than anybody I’ve ever met, he’s stupidly attractive and we both wanted the same things from our lives. It was always a 100% yes to him. I don’t think my issues are about him. I think such a close relationship “triggers” the problems in me. Me hiding behind anger isn’t necessarily about rejecting him - it’s about me being scared of my own feelings. I think the only reason I’m willing to face it at all is because I want the relationship, because I want him and want him to want me. Lol women are different from me, certainly, but our psychology is not incomprehensible. We’re only human, after all. Right. I am a stay at home mom, so at the moment my personal income and childcare situation allows for therapy from the Internet. I don’t trust most of my “real life” relationships and Reddit is pretty iffy at best. Funny how I found FDR. My husband and I initially “clicked” because I told him my dream was to homeschool my own kids. We dated, he introduced me to a subreddit /theredpill, and I found Molyneaux and J. Peterson from there. I love listening to them while I clean. Giving up my work has be and hard, and being the caretaker of two babies under 2 is lots of menial tasks. I’m a poop connoisseur and quite literally spend hours “walking” my baby to sleep. While this is what I want to do, I get very intellectually bored, and FDR and Peterson’s videos have really helped me.

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.