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Bitcoin capable of phasing out the fed?

Federal Reserve End the Fed Bitcoin solution competition

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37 replies to this topic

#1
Mick Bynes

Mick Bynes

  • 134 posts

Well I found this article on a Facebook page called Say no to Democrat and Republican Zombies.  This article suggests Bitcoin is competition for the fed and it will end the fed.  What does everyone here think?  Ron Paul says it is the solution to end the fed.

 

At first, Ron Paul was not for it.  NOW he seems to be warming up to it as an alternative to the Fed - See more at: http://silverundergr...h.NozDbcCy.dpuf


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"I've never seen a homeless guy with a bottle of Gatorade" - George Carlin


#2
Wesley

Wesley

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  • 1232 posts
It will not end the fed as long as the USD is still viable in the eyes of the public.

It will find a niche market in the meantime that will keep expanding. (Like transferring large sums of money overseas for pennies in transaction fees)

Also, if there is every a collapse or issue in the dollar, bitcoin will provide a viable alternative to make the transition easy as people find the dollar unusable.

Most people won't change until they have a pretty big reason.
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#3
Josh F

Josh F

    Thought Terrorist


  • 766 posts

It is the only external threat to central banking world wide, the internal threat being their inevitable collapse


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#4
Mick Bynes

Mick Bynes

  • 134 posts

I agree with ya, Wesley.  When they find it ultra necessary to switch to Bitcoin.  The currency will be put to good use once the dollar is totally worthless.

 

If I'm not mistaken... they caught a guy (who was running Silk Road) with Bitcoin currency, but they were not able to get the currency he had.  That's a pretty good sign to me.


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"I've never seen a homeless guy with a bottle of Gatorade" - George Carlin


#5
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4662 posts

The Fed will phase out the Fed long before Bitcoin gains enough popularity to create a significant impact.


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#6
ribuck

ribuck

  • 1275 posts

If I'm not mistaken... they caught a guy (who was running Silk Road) with Bitcoin currency, but they were not able to get the currency he had.

 

The FBI "only" got $28.5 million worth of his bitcoins (144,000 BTC). That's probably enough to make the FBI the largest single holder of Bitcoins on the planet.


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#7
Josh F

Josh F

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  • 766 posts

The Fed will phase out the Fed long before Bitcoin gains enough popularity to create a significant impact.

they havent even legalized marijuana, the sluggish speed of government change or inability to change is never to be under estimated. 


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#8
Mick Bynes

Mick Bynes

  • 134 posts

The FBI "only" got $28.5 million worth of his bitcoins (144,000 BTC). That's probably enough to make the FBI the largest single holder of Bitcoins on the planet.

 

Ah I see.  Well those G-men didn't get it all.


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"I've never seen a homeless guy with a bottle of Gatorade" - George Carlin


#9
wdiaz03

wdiaz03

  • 235 posts

I'm not as optimist. Lets not forget that they have the guns. Once they milk all they can from the dollar they can easily create a new currency "the new dollar" and peg it to the euro or whatever foreign currency people are using.

This is not new

http://en.wikipedia....onvertible_peso

 

Cubans get paid in the national currency but any dollars coming in from outside must be converted to another currency CUC before it is spent. Moving the flow of dollars from the people to the government as they replace it with paper (CUC)

 

All the talk of bitcoin transactions being anonymous etc. is irrelevant because all it takes is for the Tax Farmers to declare its use illegal and subject to immediate confiscation not only of the currency but of any property/location/etc where it has been used. Then the Farmers wold only need to pose as buyers or sellers and arrest and make a few examples for people not to even want to touch the stuff.


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"So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” Anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family." - George Carlin


#10
Josh F

Josh F

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wdiaz, that doesnt hold true for bittorrent or marijuana, why would it hold true or bitcoin?  I live in Costa Rica, there is no way the US criminalizing bitcoin would effect its usage here.


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#11
Wesley

Wesley

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  • 1232 posts

All the talk of bitcoin transactions being anonymous etc. is irrelevant because all it takes is for the Tax Farmers to declare its use illegal and subject to immediate confiscation not only of the currency but of any property/location/etc where it has been used. Then the Farmers wold only need to pose as buyers or sellers and arrest and make a few examples for people not to even want to touch the stuff.

The vast majority of bitcoins do not happen in person, but happen based on account reputation or online store. I often have no way of knowing who I am buying from or who I have received bitcoins from in a transaction.

 

The longer they wait to do this, the more impossible it will be as it will proliferate further into most everyone's computer. Not to mention that I can print out and distribute paper wallets which, if buried in the yard several weeks ago, would not be able to be found.

 

Bitcoin has been used to successfully purchase almost everything which would already require immediate confiscation if discovered and it has still thrived. They already pose as buyers and sellers in drugs, prostitution, etc and in these areas bitcoins have become a common way to help avoid government more than before.

 

If individuals get caught, bitcoin is P2P so as long as 1 person is still broadcasting, bitcoin will continue. Also, I can just mix and transfer any tainted coins to a new wallet at any time in order to dissociate myself from a transaction that went badly and there would be no evidence of my coins being linked.


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#12
wdiaz03

wdiaz03

  • 235 posts

This is all fair and dandy until the SHTF.  I learned at an early age not to underestimate those in power. After all they are the Alphas for a reason. Take Cuba with Fidel, living a long life and dying at a ripe old age 90 miles from the US. You can say all you want about him but he was smart enough to play the cards and take over a country and milk it all this time.

 

Living in the guts of the monster I always had this theory that those in power always made sure everyone had to break the law in one way or another to survive, Because breaking the law was to live in fear. and when you live in fear you will not stand out, you will behave, you will allow the tax farmer to take anything from you because if they where to find out what you were doing in the black market you would be thrown in jail an likely die.

 

How hard is it for the government to clamp down on ISPs and enforce monitoring of your internet activity? What is stopping them from setting up fake bitcoin shops and snagging customers? It already happens with bitTorrent, Where Media companies setup computers hosting a movie etc, any IP connecting to it is logged and the ISPs later notified, who then in turn notify their customers of the illegal activity with a letter. How hard is it to monitor your mail? All it takes is for some unlucky citizens to be paraded and be made an example of for most people to stop. For the rest, sure do your business fill your coffers because in the end all they do is to track you down and confiscate your wealth.

 

What is the war on drugs but confiscation of wealth from the poor in the form of raids of their dealers?

 

There really cannot be a competing currency when it is illegal. it will only be used in the black market by a few. Any legal business will still pay people on the currency of the government's choice and all taxes collected in that currency. How many people turned in their gold after Executive Order 6102 passed? The only reason bitcoins is used so much is because it is not yet illegal.


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"So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” Anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family." - George Carlin


#13
Wesley

Wesley

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Well, if this started happening with any regularity, people  would probably start setting up the meshnet.

 

I do agree that many will be deterred from bitcoin if illegal. I also think illegality will make bitcoin worth more (in the long run) than it currently is as it will add credibility to the system as something that needed to be made illegal.

 

Kids have great access to pot even though it is illegal. Bitcoin (as it cannot be controlled and is just numbers) will continue to exist and be traded post-illegality if it were to come.


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#14
wdiaz03

wdiaz03

  • 235 posts

Well, if this started happening with any regularity, people  would probably start setting up the meshnet.

 

I do agree that many will be deterred from bitcoin if illegal. I also think illegality will make bitcoin worth more (in the long run) than it currently is as it will add credibility to the system as something that needed to be made illegal.

 

Kids have great access to pot even though it is illegal. Bitcoin (as it cannot be controlled and is just numbers) will continue to exist and be traded post-illegality if it were to come.

 

I hope Meshnet works, How many people would risk using it if made illegal? I cant tell.

But regardless Pot has not replaced garden plants and I don't know of anyone growing it in their gardens. (Inside their homes maybe) but just like garden plants don't have to worry about being replaced by marijuana plants neither does the enforced fiat currency has to fear bitcoin.


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"So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” Anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family." - George Carlin


#15
Wesley

Wesley

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I hope Meshnet works, How many people would risk using it if made illegal? I cant tell.

But regardless Pot has not replaced garden plants and I don't know of anyone growing it in their gardens. (Inside their homes maybe) but just like garden plants don't have to worry about being replaced by marijuana plants neither does the enforced fiat currency has to fear bitcoin.

I wouldn't know either.

 

However, the pot/garden plant isn't a totally good comparison with bitcoin. Both pot and garden plants have value in themselves, so in any environment they would still have values.

 

Bitcoin and fiat money only have value in their ability to exchange for goods and services.

 

However, I do agree that it is nearly impossible that while a state exists, bitcoin will supplant state money,


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#16
Hugh Akston

Hugh Akston

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I am not convinced that Bitcoin is money.  The best money will have value and utility in its own right to serve as a quality money.  I've heard  the "all value is subjective" argument so many times now and have read Mises' works too and I disagree with him.  Just remember to apply that subjective theory of value to the value of your own arguments as well if that is the argument you wish to make.

 

Gold has siginifcant weakness as a money due to the same issue.  Money that represents real value in society will be the most trustworthy source of value.  If I gave you a storage credit for some fuel, you would frequently go and redeem it, keeping the "banker" honest.  I believe the problem that led to fractional reserve banking, was that no one ever felt the need to redeem their credit notes for the gold that backed it.  This in itself was a huge temptation to the banker.


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All phenomena are real in some sense, unreal in some sense, meaningless in some sense, real and meaningless in some sense, unreal and meaningless in some sense, and real and unreal and meaningless in some sense.

#17
Wesley

Wesley

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  • 1232 posts

I am not convinced that Bitcoin is money.  The best money will have value and utility in its own right to serve as a quality money.  I've heard  the "all value is subjective" argument so many times now and have read Mises' works too and I disagree with him.  Just remember to apply that subjective theory of value to the value of your own arguments as well if that is the argument you wish to make.

 

Gold has siginifcant weakness as a money due to the same issue.  Money that represents real value in society will be the most trustworthy source of value.  If I gave you a storage credit for some fuel, you would frequently go and redeem it, keeping the "banker" honest.  I believe the problem that led to fractional reserve banking, was that no one ever felt the need to redeem their credit notes for the gold that backed it.  This in itself was a huge temptation to the banker.

That is what is so cool about bitcoin. There is no banker. It is completely determined by math which cannot change by the whims of any banker, any capitalist, or most importantly: any state. There is no need to keep anyone honest as with a basic program you are able to do all of your own electronic banking without a bank. Transfers around the world on transactions that are millions of dollars of equivalent value are done for pennies where a bank would require at least tens of thousands.


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#18
wdiaz03

wdiaz03

  • 235 posts

I am not convinced that Bitcoin is money.  The best money will have value and utility in its own right to serve as a quality money.  I've heard  the "all value is subjective" argument so many times now and have read Mises' works too and I disagree with him.  Just remember to apply that subjective theory of value to the value of your own arguments as well if that is the argument you wish to make.

 

Gold has siginifcant weakness as a money due to the same issue.  Money that represents real value in society will be the most trustworthy source of value.  If I gave you a storage credit for some fuel, you would frequently go and redeem it, keeping the "banker" honest.  I believe the problem that led to fractional reserve banking, was that no one ever felt the need to redeem their credit notes for the gold that backed it.  This in itself was a huge temptation to the banker.

 

Fuel will have the same problem, Because most people will be storing more fuel than they consume. If fuel were used to store value then its price will increase due to the new demand for this new purpose and consumption of fuel as fuel will drop as its use is shifted to a medium of exchange. I Don't think this will solve anything as far as fractional reserve banking.

 

My issue with bitcoin (I'll have to admit I know little about it) is that I needs to trust some complicated technology to tell me if the bitcoin is not fake etc. You need complicated special equipment (computer, a network, software, OS) how long will this technology last? What if windows 15 does not support Bitcoin due to a government mandate? I can hide my bitcoins in the yard, but without the technology they are useless.

Gold has some of the same issues to a lesser degree, as people would have to walk around with gold testing equipment. but gold if buried is still gold, gold coins from the 1500s is still as good today and back then. That's a good track record.


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"So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” Anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family." - George Carlin


#19
Wesley

Wesley

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  • 1232 posts

My issue with bitcoin (I'll have to admit I know little about it) is that I needs to trust some complicated technology to tell me if the bitcoin is not fake etc. You need complicated special equipment (computer, a network, software, OS) how long will this technology last?

 

Bitcoin is constantly being updated. If anything significant needs to be changed then bitcoin will fork and people can choose to switch over to the new system if they want to based on the recommendations of the developers and their own research. If at some point the forked software is not in the best interest of the users, then people will choose to not take the fork and new developers will work on updating the pre-fork software.

 

What if windows 15 does not support Bitcoin due to a government mandate?

 

This, again, would legitimize bitcoin. Plus I would just patch a hole like with every other piece of software out there. Or I would use a browser (there are several websites) or I would migrate to linux, or I would use an android app (there are several).

 

I can hide my bitcoins in the yard, but without the technology they are useless.

 

Transactions do not need to be performed with technology. See https://www.casascius.com/. or https://www.bitaddress.org in the paper wallet option, or the many other ways to transact physical representations of bitcoins. If you want to migrate addresses, at some point they need to broadcast to the blockchain, but this is communication not technology. Theoretically broadcasts could be made through any communication method that can go worldwide and the state would never shut down all global communication.

 

If they did, then bitcoin would migrate to the darknet or the meshnet anyway.

 

Gold has some of the same issues to a lesser degree, as people would have to walk around with gold testing equipment. but gold if buried is still gold, gold coins from the 1500s is still as good today and back then. That's a good track record.


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#20
wdiaz03

wdiaz03

  • 235 posts

 

My issue with bitcoin (I'll have to admit I know little about it) is that I needs to trust some complicated technology to tell me if the bitcoin is not fake etc. You need complicated special equipment (computer, a network, software, OS) how long will this technology last?

 

Bitcoin is constantly being updated. If anything significant needs to be changed then bitcoin will fork and people can choose to switch over to the new system if they want to based on the recommendations of the developers and their own research. If at some point the forked software is not in the best interest of the users, then people will choose to not take the fork and new developers will work on updating the pre-fork software.

 

What if windows 15 does not support Bitcoin due to a government mandate?

 

This, again, would legitimize bitcoin. Plus I would just patch a hole like with every other piece of software out there. Or I would use a browser (there are several websites) or I would migrate to linux, or I would use an android app (there are several).

 

I can hide my bitcoins in the yard, but without the technology they are useless.

 

Transactions do not need to be performed with technology. See https://www.casascius.com/. or https://www.bitaddress.org in the paper wallet option, or the many other ways to transact physical representations of bitcoins. If you want to migrate addresses, at some point they need to broadcast to the blockchain, but this is communication not technology. Theoretically broadcasts could be made through any communication method that can go worldwide and the state would never shut down all global communication.

 

If they did, then bitcoin would migrate to the darknet or the meshnet anyway.

 

Gold has some of the same issues to a lesser degree, as people would have to walk around with gold testing equipment. but gold if buried is still gold, gold coins from the 1500s is still as good today and back then. That's a good track record.

 

 

Might point was that one cannot easily validate a barcode or a number on a paper. You need the infrastructure...It would be like hidding 3.5 floppies and my kids kid finding them only to be told...O yeah about that, that technology was phased 100 years ago...you didn't get the memo? Where if he where to find my gold coins it would be a different story.

 

Thanks for the information I'll admit that bitcoins and interesting enough to consider and I'll do that. I was just pointing some things out.


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"So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” Anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family." - George Carlin


#21
Josh F

Josh F

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  • 766 posts

Lot of American centric thinking here.  If it made illegal in the United States, it doesnt make it illegal everywhere.  The other 5.7 Billion will still be here....

 

And as those countries prosper from access to it, smart people will be buying it illegal or not.


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#22
wdiaz03

wdiaz03

  • 235 posts

Lot of American centric thinking here.  If it made illegal in the United States, it doesnt make it illegal everywhere.  The other 5.7 Billion will still be here....

 

And as those countries prosper from access to it, smart people will be buying it illegal or not.

 

Great minds think alike TT...anything that undermines the Tax Farmers printing presses is going to be targetted in the name of national security, How open is Costa Rica about legally owning automatic machine guns? what a coincidence then? Lets face it. we are allowed to play with the toys that they allow us to play with. bitcoin is no different. ;)


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"So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” Anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family." - George Carlin


#23
Josh F

Josh F

    Thought Terrorist


  • 766 posts

And yet people here own machine guns.  They're also not going to criminalize it here, it isn't like the US with this advanced tax structure.  Its more true to the mafia model, they just send cops business to business and make them pay for licenses.  That and drug money fund the entire government here.  Bitcoin isn't a threat to it in the least.


and MOST importantly, it is impossible to police.  The resources required to check every computer, thumb drive, email, etc for bitcoins and then track them to the person and attempt to put them in jail.... it would be beyond the scope of even the US Government.  It is as hard to police as bittorrenting. 

 

And lets go over that, whats the history of torrent and criminality?  They busted Napster, a couple movie hosting websites, and targeted some small handful of private consumers.  And it stopped NOTHING.


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#24
Hugh Akston

Hugh Akston

  • 53 posts

Fuel will have the same problem, Because most people will be storing more fuel than they consume. If fuel were used to store value then its price will increase due to the new demand for this new purpose and consumption of fuel as fuel will drop as its use is shifted to a medium of exchange. I Don't think this will solve anything as far as fractional reserve banking.

 

People do in fact currently store more fuel than they consume.  Currently this is being done by governments and they typically call it a strategic stock and the costs of this are hidden in taxes rather than it being determined by the market as it would if it was being used as a store of value. 

 

The point I'm making here is that the utility of a commodity in an economy is an important determinant of its quality as a money.  The consumption of fuel does not necessarily have to increase as it will not be "shifted" to a different use as you claim as it does not necessarily follow that the stock would grow larger than it is at present and I believe the "invisible hand" of the market will correct any dislocations caused by relying too much on a particular commodity to serve as medium of exchange.

 

Money to be usefull has to be the most marketable commodity in a society and gold has lost that status many, many years ago.  Unlike bitcoin I do not have to rely on blind trust if I can redeem my currency at a trusted storage depot for some real value (that can be determined objectively ;).  I think that Bitcoin is a poor example of what a currency should be.


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All phenomena are real in some sense, unreal in some sense, meaningless in some sense, real and meaningless in some sense, unreal and meaningless in some sense, and real and unreal and meaningless in some sense.

#25
wdiaz03

wdiaz03

  • 235 posts

People do in fact currently store more fuel than they consume.  Currently this is being done by governments and they typically call it a strategic stock and the costs of this are hidden in taxes rather than it being determined by the market as it would if it was being used as a store of value. 

 

The point I'm making here is that the utility of a commodity in an economy is an important determinant of its quality as a money.  The consumption of fuel does not necessarily have to increase as it will not be "shifted" to a different use as you claim as it does not necessarily follow that the stock would grow larger than it is at present and I believe the "invisible hand" of the market will correct any dislocations caused by relying too much on a particular commodity to serve as medium of exchange.

 

Money to be usefull has to be the most marketable commodity in a society and gold has lost that status many, many years ago.  Unlike bitcoin I do not have to rely on blind trust if I can redeem my currency at a trusted storage depot for some real value (that can be determined objectively ;).  I think that Bitcoin is a poor example of what a currency should be.

 

The average joe does not store more fuel than they consume. Which was the point of my comment.

 

Once a commodity is used as money it will command an added premium than will increase its price. there is now a added demand for fuel other than energy. Whether the market can increase production to meet the extra demand is not the point.

 

But look at what you are proposing here. You have to rely on a "trusted" storage depot with fuel, Well, lets put the word "Trusted" on bitcoins, fiat money...etc and I guess we solve our problem then....Putting a word in front of your chosen solution is not a solution.

 

Think of the storage costs, how are you going to keep all that fuel? at $5 a gallon youll need a 10,000 gallon storage tank to keep $50,000 worth of fuel...you'll need about 33 1oz gold coins at $1500/oz....IF you had to leave your home in a hurry? good luck with your fuel. Also gold does not catch fire easily and does not go bad in a year or so or evaporate.  (I think fuel is a bad example of what money should be  ;)  )


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"So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” Anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family." - George Carlin


#26
Wesley

Wesley

    Self-Excavator


  • 1232 posts

The average joe does not store more fuel than they consume. Which was the point of my comment.

 

Once a commodity is used as money it will command an added premium than will increase its price. there is now a added demand for fuel other than energy. Whether the market can increase production to meet the extra demand is not the point.

 

But look at what you are proposing here. You have to rely on a "trusted" storage depot with fuel, Well, lets put the word "Trusted" on bitcoins, fiat money...etc and I guess we solve our problem then....Putting a word in front of your chosen solution is not a solution.

 

Think of the storage costs, how are you going to keep all that fuel? at $5 a gallon youll need a 10,000 gallon storage tank to keep $50,000 worth of fuel...you'll need about 33 1oz gold coins at $1500/oz....IF you had to leave your home in a hurry? good luck with your fuel. Also gold does not catch fire easily and does not go bad in a year or so or evaporate.  (I think fuel is a bad example of what money should be  ;)  )

Or bitcoin is just data that can be engraved into a single gold piece to store a (theoretical) infinite amount of money and still be fire proof and easy to transport.

 

Take That!  :D


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#27
wdiaz03

wdiaz03

  • 235 posts

Or bitcoin is just data that can be engraved into a single gold piece to store a (theoretical) infinite amount of money and still be fire proof and easy to transport.

 

Take That!  :D

 

:)

 

I don't think the problem is the medium where the bitcoin is kept.

 

But think about this, what if the pyramids were really banks and the hieroglyphics a form of bitcoins...pretty useless today...but if they were lined with gold...Hmmm ;)


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"So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” Anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family." - George Carlin


#28
Hugh Akston

Hugh Akston

  • 53 posts

The average joe does not store more fuel than they consume. Which was the point of my comment.

 

Once a commodity is used as money it will command an added premium than will increase its price. there is now a added demand for fuel other than energy. Whether the market can increase production to meet the extra demand is not the point.

 

But look at what you are proposing here. You have to rely on a "trusted" storage depot with fuel, Well, lets put the word "Trusted" on bitcoins, fiat money...etc and I guess we solve our problem then....Putting a word in front of your chosen solution is not a solution.

 

Think of the storage costs, how are you going to keep all that fuel? at $5 a gallon youll need a 10,000 gallon storage tank to keep $50,000 worth of fuel...you'll need about 33 1oz gold coins at $1500/oz....IF you had to leave your home in a hurry? good luck with your fuel. Also gold does not catch fire easily and does not go bad in a year or so or evaporate.  (I think fuel is a bad example of what money should be  ;)  )

 

You win the argument with your carefully constructed arguments and avoidance of logical fallacies.  Truly a master at work.  I bow to you oh great one.  Google "gold" or "bitcoin" shortage hurricane sandy.


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All phenomena are real in some sense, unreal in some sense, meaningless in some sense, real and meaningless in some sense, unreal and meaningless in some sense, and real and unreal and meaningless in some sense.

#29
ILO

ILO

  • 23 posts

Maybe if we can get Bitcoin to stabilize, and be accepted by more retail/online stores.


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#30
Wesley

Wesley

    Self-Excavator


  • 1232 posts

Maybe if we can get Bitcoin to stabilize, and be accepted by more retail/online stores.

Using Bitpay, any business can accept bitcoin at no risk of holding the bitcoin and at far lower fees than credit cards.

 

By the end of every day, whatever the bitcoin balance is in your account it gets converted into USD and sent to you (minus a 1% fee)

 

Or you can pay a few bucks a month and get no transaction fees.


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#31
ILO

ILO

  • 23 posts
@Wesley can you use that with amazon?
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#32
Wesley

Wesley

    Self-Excavator


  • 1232 posts

@Wesley can you use that with amazon?

The company needs to sign up with Bitpay. Amazon has not done this.

 

Amazon, instead, has tried to jump on the digital currency bandwagon and make their own Amazon Coins. These, of course have none of the advantages of bitcoin and are basically Amazon coupon points.

 

Maybe in the future they will enable bitcoin purchasing. If so, then they will probably use a service like Bitpay.

 

How people currently get around this is buying Amazon gift cards with bitcoin:

 

http://www.gyft.com/...for-gift-cards/

http://www.btc4amazon.com/order

 

As a warning, make sure you trust the source of someone you buy a gift card from with bitcoin. There are ways to chargeback the value of the gift card for a fee while bitcoins have no charge back. However, either of these sites make their money from being reliable so you wouldn't have a problem. Just do not buy gift cards from a third party on forums or something who you do not know.

 

The more popular the bitcoin market becomes, the more that larger and larger businesses will start accepting bitcoin and the higher the bitcoin price will be.


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#33
Naer

Naer
  • 42 posts

bitcoin will inevitable phase out the fed. It's only a matter of time. Bitcoin is to fiat as ipads are to paper and pen. It will gain legitamacy as more businesses start to accept it. It's used in the black market right now. The need to go to bitcoin can be out of greed tho unless you are forced to use it if you deal in the black market. I orded a faulty GPU from amazon I think was out of greed. We need to relax and let the market forces work it's way naturally


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#34
Lowe D

Lowe D

    Lion King


  • 861 posts

@ Naer

 

Sorry to knock your example, but Ipads have not replaced pen and paper.  Pen and paper still have billions more users than Ipads.

 

...

 

Dollars continue to be much stabler than bitcoin, which is the most important characteristic of a currency.  Until a bond market in Bitcoins emerges, this will remain the case.  A bond market stabilizes a currency, because it stabilizes interest rates, and therefore savings rates.  The savings rate in Bitcoin is volatile, which is why its purchasing power is volatile.

 

Imagine bond traders think that the purchasing power of the dollar is going to increse, i.e. there is going to be deflation in the dollar.  They then buy bonds with the highest interest rate available for acceptable credit risk.  This is because they expect the interest payments to buy more goods in the future, than the principal does now.

 

So they bid bond prices upward, to which bond sellers respond by bidding interest rates downward.  This includes the rate on savings bonds, which encourages the public consume now, instead of saving for later.  More consumption increases the price of goods in dollars, which decreases the deflation expectation, stabilizing the value of the currency.

 

The process plays out in reverse, to stabilize against inflation as well.  However, what really happens is that these events occur very quickly, because the traders can anticipate them, and do not need to wait for the public to react.  The net effect is that the value of the dollar scarcely changes day-to-day.


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If we have souls, they are made of the love we share. Undimmed by time, unbound by death.

Oblivion


#35
Naer

Naer
  • 42 posts

@ Naer

 

Sorry to knock your example, but Ipads have not replaced pen and paper.  Pen and paper still have billions more users than Ipads.

 

...

 

Dollars continue to be much stabler than bitcoin, which is the most important characteristic of a currency.  Until a bond market in Bitcoins emerges, this will remain the case.  A bond market stabilizes a currency, because it stabilizes interest rates, and therefore savings rates.  The savings rate in Bitcoin is volatile, which is why its purchasing power is volatile.

 

Imagine bond traders think that the purchasing power of the dollar is going to increse, i.e. there is going to be deflation in the dollar.  They then buy bonds with the highest interest rate available for acceptable credit risk.  This is because they expect the interest payments to buy more goods in the future, than the principal does now.

 

So they bid bond prices upward, to which bond sellers respond by bidding interest rates downward.  This includes the rate on savings bonds, which encourages the public consume now, instead of saving for later.  More consumption increases the price of goods in dollars, which decreases the deflation expectation, stabilizing the value of the currency.

 

The process plays out in reverse, to stabilize against inflation as well.  However, what really happens is that these events occur very quickly, because the traders can anticipate them, and do not need to wait for the public to react.  The net effect is that the value of the dollar scarcely changes day-to-day.

sorry, I'll say it replaced it in my life. But, yeah, it's not replaced in general.


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