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The Truth About Obamacare: Yes, It's Even Worse Than You Think


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35 replies to this topic

#1
Stefan Molyneux

Stefan Molyneux
  • 19731 posts

[View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JEXMW9WSlg]


Fact 1: There Is No Law in the US Anymore
Fact 2: Obamacare Is an Admission That All Previous Government Healthcare Programs Have Failed
Fact 3: Cost of Already Doubled from Initial Estimates
Fact 4: 70%+ of Healthcare Issues Results from Individual Choice
Fact 5: The Inability to Discriminate on Pre-Existing Conditions is an Essential Driver of Healthcare Costs
Fact 6: The Fines for Noncompliance Are Destined to Rise Enormously

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#2
Justus Ranvier

Justus Ranvier

  • 144 posts

.


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#3
Magnus

Magnus

    Subversive

  • 808 posts

There Is No Law in the US Anymore

It took me about a year, my first out of law school, to come to this realization.  Four years (and six-figure debt) too late.


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"The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual crime."


-- Max Stirner


#4
kranberry

kranberry
  • 121 posts

^ I'm not really sure what that means. I'd like to be. Can you explain it?
[edit] It was explained in the vid. Thanks.


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#5
nathanm

nathanm

  • 1772 posts

That's one appropriate smiley to use, cause that's how I felt when I saw this video come up on YT.  I hadn't heard about the decision yet. Dammit.


If THE LAW was truly THE LAW, then wouldn't any panel of experts on said law come to a unanimous consensus every time?  The Constitution ain't all that long of a document, you'd think it would be pretty easy.  What's that you say?  It's not science, it's just a bunch of powermad sociopaths gaming for control?  Ahh, crap.


As if the existing medical system isn't already ridiculously expensive, now it's gonna be off the charts.  Stef's right, you better not get sick cause if you do you're screwed.


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"The government always sneaks in when I'm half seized-over and purloins the very thread from my hanky!" - Joad Cressbeckler


#6
Wrong Opinion

Wrong Opinion
  • 137 posts

I don't really find the law all that surprising or disturbing. It's expected.


 


What actually does disturb me is how people are celebrating their own demise in public. Those poor ignorant souls are reveling while the State sucks their life forces out of them, originally figuratively, and now quite possibly literaly...


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http://www.reddit.com/r/VoluntaryOhio


http://www.facebook.com/VoluntaryOhio


Voluntary Ohio is a newborn community for folks of libertarian persuasion to discuss local issues and organize for fun, education, and Agora.


#7
Nicholas Reiser

Nicholas Reiser

  • 118 posts

Fact 3: Cost of Already Doubled from Initial Estimates

Then we should suport it at all costs (literally).  Feed the violent alcoholic more alcohol and be sure to help them find their keys.


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#8
kranberry

kranberry
  • 121 posts

 I'm about 90% sure that, at some point when I was looking through this forum - not this thread - I saw a post about heathcare that talked about how changing Intellectual Property Law regarding medicine would acheive a cheaper health care system. It went very in-depth into that possibility. I wanted to find that post, but I've been unable to. The search function hasn't helped me locate it.


If anybody knows what post I'm talking about and can point me to the thread that I'm looking for, I'd really appreciate it.


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#9
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

How Obamacare will hurt my small business, others like it

There is no way around the fact that Obamacare will force me to cut back hours, eliminate positions and abandon plans for future growth and hiring. Multiply my story by the thousands of small businesses that are in a similar position, and the true scope of the problem becomes painfully clear.

This is a good article which discusses the real impact of Obamacare on small business.


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#10
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Hobby Lobby faces $1.3M daily fine for noncompliance with Obamacare


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#11
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

College Students Get Stung By ObamaCare

College students will soon wake up to the fact that they have been had.
While they were overwhelmingly supportive of the Patient Protection and
Affordable Care Act (PPACA or “ObamaCare”) when their charismatic
President was championing it, they will not be pleased when they find
out that there is a huge price they will have to pay. ObamaCare will be
anything but affordable.

Apparently, New Jersey is the only state in the nation that currently
requires all college students to have healthcare coverage. This has
always been a bare-bones plan costing from $100-600 per year. The new
healthcare regulations will force these plans to be phased out, as the
mandated coverage under ObamaCare will cause the premiums to rise from a
few hundred dollars to $1,700 per year.

In an amazing example of irony, New Jersey Democrat Assemblywoman
Celeste Riley is sponsoring a bill to eliminate New Jersey’s mandatory
health insurance for college students. Wait. Didn’t Democrats
overwhelmingly support the President’s plan when it was being debated?
Aren’t college students citizens that should be required to purchase
government-approved coverage as defined by Obama’s PPACA?

College students are getting an object lesson in progressivism. They
will learn that their choices are being obliterated when it comes to
what must be included in their plans. An edict came down that a college
plan must cover 30 mental health outpatient visits as well as inpatient
mental health benefits. It must cover substance and chemical abuse
treatments, all pre-existing conditions, pregnancy,
wellness/preventative care visits, contraception, and abortions.


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#12
Magnus

Magnus

    Subversive

  • 808 posts

College Students Get Stung By ObamaCare

College students will soon wake up to the fact that they have been had.
While they were overwhelmingly supportive of the Patient Protection and
Affordable Care Act (PPACA or “ObamaCare”) when their charismatic
President was championing it, they will not be pleased when they find
out that there is a huge price they will have to pay. ObamaCare will be
anything but affordable.

Apparently, New Jersey is the only state in the nation that currently
requires all college students to have healthcare coverage. This has
always been a bare-bones plan costing from $100-600 per year. The new
healthcare regulations will force these plans to be phased out, as the
mandated coverage under ObamaCare will cause the premiums to rise from a
few hundred dollars to $1,700 per year.

In an amazing example of irony, New Jersey Democrat Assemblywoman
Celeste Riley is sponsoring a bill to eliminate New Jersey’s mandatory
health insurance for college students. Wait. Didn’t Democrats
overwhelmingly support the President’s plan when it was being debated?
Aren’t college students citizens that should be required to purchase
government-approved coverage as defined by Obama’s PPACA?

College students are getting an object lesson in progressivism. They
will learn that their choices are being obliterated when it comes to
what must be included in their plans. An edict came down that a college
plan must cover 30 mental health outpatient visits as well as inpatient
mental health benefits. It must cover substance and chemical abuse
treatments, all pre-existing conditions, pregnancy,
wellness/preventative care visits, contraception, and abortions.

I use my school-era health insurance as my personal standard for how an industry can be f*cked up by government intervention.

When I was 25 or so, my health insurance plan cost $40 per quarter.  They wouldn't even bill me monthly, since the cost was so low.  It gave me 80% coverage after a large-ish deductible of around $6,000 or so.  It was designed to cover car accidents and cancer and the risk of being shot (since I was a student in New Orleans, with the then-highest per capita murder rate). 

Fifteen years later, similar coverage for me and my wife and son costs $1,800-$2,000 per month.

The truly ridiculous development is that this already-insane price will be going up as a result of ObamaCare.


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"The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual crime."


-- Max Stirner


#13
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius: Yep, Obamacare is Raising Insurance Costs


Study estimates Obamacare could raise individual claim costs 32 percent


Study: Health Law to Raise Claims Cost 32%


The "Affordable Health Care Act."


It makes health-care affordable.


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#14
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Obamacare to pay 'navigators' $20 to $48 an hour, provide free translators

Tens of thousands of health care professionals, union workers and community activists hired as "navigators" to help Americans choose Obamacare options starting Oct. 1 will be paid up to $48 an hour, more than six times the federal minimum wage of $7.25, according to new regulations issued Wednesday.

The 63-page rule covering navigators, drawn up by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, also said the government will provide free translators for those not fluent in English -- no matter what their native language is.

. . .

It is still not clear how many navigators will be required. California, however, provides a hint. It wants 21,000.

That could be an expensive proposition, since every one of them must be paid a minimum of $20 an hour. According to the new regulations, navigators and assistants will earn $20 an hour, while navigator project leaders will earn $29 an hour. Navigator senior executives will be paid $48 an hour.

The rules allow navigators to come from the ranks of unions, health providers and community action groups such as ACORN and Planned Parenthood. They are required to provide unbiased advice.

Growing the cancer.


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#15
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Smoking a "are-existing" condition under Obamacare

The District of Columbia’s Obamacare czars — the board that sets rules for the phony insurance marketplace, or “exchange,” that the law creates — have decided that henceforth insurers shall be forbidden by law to charge smokers higher rates than non-smokers. Smoking, as it turns out, “is a preexisting medical condition,” according to Dr. Mohammad Akhter, the chairman of the D.C. Health Exchange Board.


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#16
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

HHS budgets $150m to teach people how to enroll in Obamacare

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced Thursday that HHS will spend $150 million to teach people how to enroll in the Obamacare exchanges, after a Democratic senator scolded her for running a poor “public information campaign.”

. . .

...tens of thousands of people would be paid between $20 and $48 an hour to serve as “navigators” to help others enroll for the law’s benefits.

Where do we get the free Obamacare?


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#17
SimonF

SimonF
  • 1366 posts

When shit is so complex you need an army of bureucrats to manage it, you know you got socialism.


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to see crazy, you have to know sane


 


#18
Magnus

Magnus

    Subversive

  • 808 posts

Here's the latest in completely predictable disaster from Obamacare -- several of the major "insurers" (United, Aetna and Cigna) are leaving.

Some prominent health insurers, including industry giant UnitedHealth
Group Inc., are not participating in California's new state-run health
insurance market, possibly limiting the number of choices for millions
of consumers. ...

the biggest insurers in the state — Kaiser Permanente, Anthem Blue Cross
and Blue Shield of California — are all expected to participate in the
state-run market for individual health coverage.

This is how propaganda works, even without overtly arguing for a position -- these companies are not "insurers," and it's not a "market."

 


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"The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual crime."


-- Max Stirner


#19
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VBzWHTMHvs


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#20
Livemike

Livemike
  • 941 posts

Smoking a "are-existing" condition under Obamacare

The District of Columbia’s Obamacare czars — the board that sets rules for the phony insurance marketplace, or “exchange,” that the law creates — have decided that henceforth insurers shall be forbidden by law to charge smokers higher rates than non-smokers. Smoking, as it turns out, “is a preexisting medical condition,” according to Dr. Mohammad Akhter, the chairman of the D.C. Health Exchange Board.

Your previous comment ("Growing the cancer") seems now to be _literally_ true.


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#21
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

$990K Federal Grant to Teach High School Students In Los Angeles How To Promote Obamacare

 

Thousands of high school students in the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD), including those who scored below average on their eighth grade reading and math tests, will soon be encouraged to learn how to sell Obamacare to their families under a $43 million federal grant.

 

California was the first state in the nation to create a health benefit exchange to comply with the federal Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. The health care exchange, known as Covered California, will receive $43 million of federal funding.

 

Of that amount, $37 million will be given to 48 organizations for outreach and education programs, including a $990,000 grant to LAUSD to produce “teens trained to be messengers to family members” about Obamacare.


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#22
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

74% of small businesses will fire workers, cut hours under Obamacare

 

"Small businesses expect the requirement to negatively impact their employees. Twenty-seven percent say they will cut hours to reduce full time employees, 24 percent will reduce hiring, and 23 percent plan to replace full time employees with part-time workers to avoid triggering the mandate," said the Chamber business survey provided to Secrets.

 

Under Obamacare, just 30 hours  not the nationally recognized 40 hours  is considered full-time. Companies with 50 full-time workers or more are required to provide health care, or pay a fine.

 

. . .

 

Dealing with Obamacare is the biggest worry of small businesses and comes as they continue to see a sluggish economy which has already put a brake on their hiring. Just 17 percent reported adding employees in the past two years. And only one-in-five small business owners believe that they will add employees in the next two years.

 

White House press secretary Jay Carney: Suggestion ObamaCare reduces full-time hiring 'belied by the facts'

 

"The data reflects that there is not support for the proposition that businesses are not hiring full-time employees because of the Affordable Care Act," Carney told reporters.

According to The Wall Street Journal, employers have added more part-time employees — about 93,000 a month — in 2013 than full-time workers — averaging about 22,000 per month. That's a reversal from 2012, when employers hired 31,000 part-time workers and 171,000 full-time ones per month.

Under the Affordable Care Act (ACA), employers with 50 or more full-time employees (defined as working more than 30 hours per week) must offer affordable insurance or face fines. According to ADP, the average cost of a premium per employee is $9,562 per year, with an employer typically picking up three-quarters of the cost.

 

Behold The Part-Time Worker Society: "We Won't Start Hiring Full-Time People"

 

No Manufacturing Jobs But More Waiters And Bartenders Than Ever

 

Obamacare Strikes: Part-Time Jobs Surge To All Time High; Full-Time Jobs Plunge By 240,000


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#23
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

'Crying Shame When Government Actually Causes You to Shrink Your Business'

 

...Obamacare has forced him to sell or close his three CiCi's pizza franchises.

 

When the Affordable Care Act was signed into law in 2010, Westbrook says he had 96 full-time-equivalent employees. The law says businesses with 50 or more full-time equivalent employees must provide them with affordable health insurance or else pay a penalty.

 

"And so when I calculated personally on how it would affect me, I had 96 full-time equivalent employees at the time. And the penalty, which has now become a tax, was at the time, calculated at $2,300 per full-time equivalent employee. Well, that came out to almost $221,000. My three restaurants were top performing restaurants within the franchise, and that would have cost me $78,000 more than what I made out of my restaurants in 2011," Westbrook said.

 

The Obama administration's recent decision to postpone the employer mandate for one year hasn't helped, Westbrook said, because he "can't put my faith" in Congress enacting permanent changes to the law.

 

Westbrook said he's sold two of his pizza franchises and closed the third.


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#24
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Individual health insurance rates to rise 30-40% next year under new law, Florida insurance chief says

 

Health insurance rates in Florida will rise by 5 to 20 percent in the small-group market, and 30 to 40 percent in the individual market, as the Affordable Care Act’s guaranteed coverage rule takes effect next year, Florida’s insurance commissioner said...

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#25
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Ohio: expected 41% increase in individual insurance rates

 

Georgia: some individuals can expect 198% rate increase


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#26
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Obamacare Strikes, and Forever 21 Cuts Employees' Hours

 

The predictions and fears of the Affordable Care Act’s adversaries have begun to materialize, specifically fears that the law will encourage employers to demote their employees to part-time positions in order to evade federal health care requirements. Popular clothing company Forever 21 is the first of what might be many companies to limit its non-management workers’ hours to 29.5 a week, just below the 30-hour minimum that the ACA deems full-time work.

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#27
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Report: Health Care Premiums to Increase Up to 125% in Wisconsin Due to Obamacare

 


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#28
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Business Owners May Face $100-Per-Day Penalty Under ObamaCare

 

Beginning Oct. 1, any business with at least one employee and $500,000 in annual revenue must notify all employees by letter about the Affordable Care Act’s health-care exchanges, or face up to a $100-per-day fine. The requirement applies to any business regulated under the Fair Labor Standards Act, regardless of size. Going forward, letters are to be distributed to any new hires within 14 days of their starting date, according to the Department of Labor.

 

Obamacare Medical Device Tax Causes One Company to Lay Off Over 1,000 People

 


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#29
taxcattle-nzl-lf078305

taxcattle-nzl-lf078305

  • 6 posts

A part of the "debate" that I find disturbing, is that when the proposed system is compared with those state systems in other western liberal democracies there is often a position taken that the comparison can be made without considering the effects of the change itself.

 

What I mean by that is those state health systems operate in a world where almost 50% (according to wikipedia) of the global medical R&D budget is spent in the US. In some part the state systems are able to exist as they are because there is a profit driven incentive (elsewhere) for companies to develop new technologies, medications, procedures etc and to make those available on the global market for the foreign state providers to buy.

 

What effect will further state manipulation of the industry have on this profit motive and what might be the consequences for the world as a whole be if R&D money leave the industry to go elsewhere? It's not a question I've seen much attention given to, but appears to be hugely important.


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#30
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Little-Known Tax Funding Obamacare
 

If you are single with an adjusted gross income of $200,000 or file jointly with an income of $250,000 or more, you may be impacted. Once you sell your home, any profits over the first $500,000 are already subject to a capital gains tax. And now those profits will have an additional 3.8% tax to fund Obamacare.


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#31
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Taxpayers Shell Out $14,000 per Obamacare "Enrollee"

 

In her testimony before Congress today, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius provided an updated dollar amount for the cost of HealthCare.gov: $677 million. In addition to the $677 million spent on the federal Obamacare website, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) has shoveled $4.5 billion of taxpayer money to promote Obamacare on the state level.

HHS also released updated “enrollment” figures for Obamacare. According to the agency 364,682 people have “selected a plan” – the equivalent of putting an item in your online shopping cart and leaving it there.

That means the taxpayer cost per “enrollee” is over $14,000.

($4.5 billion + $677 million = $5,177,000,000 ÷ 364,682 = $14,196)

 

HHS Awards Another $58M for Obamacare Navigators

 

Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Kathleen Sebelius's agency announced grants of $58 million to 1,157 community health centers to allow them to "expand their enrollment assistance efforts as more Americans enroll in affordable health insurance coverage." These grants come on top of $150 million previously given to such health centers to "support outreach and enrollment activities" for Obamacare.

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#32
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Ill-Trained Obamacare Navigators Encouraging Fraud, Jeopardizing Private Info

 

...Obamacare Navigators have been giving Americans misinformation and, in some cases, actively encouraging enrollees to commit fraud in order to raise their subsidies.

 

. . .

 

..."poorly-trained Navigators gave consumers incorrect information about the health care exchanges, violated HHS rules and procedures, and even encouraged applicants to commit tax fraud in some instances." Moreover, this was learned from various news reports due to the complete lack of any internal oversight.


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#33
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Obamacare will push 2 million workers out of labor market: CBO

Obamacare will push the equivalent of about 2 million workers out of the labor market by 2017 as employees decide either to work fewer hours or drop out altogether, according to the latest estimates Tuesday from the Congressional Budget Office.

HealthCare.gov can't handle appeals of enrollment errors

Roughly 22,000 Americans have filed appeals with the government to try to get mistakes corrected, according to internal government data obtained by The Washington Post. They contend that the computer system for the new federal online marketplace charged them too much for health insurance, steered them into the wrong insurance program or denied them coverage entirely.

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#34
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Thought Police: Firms must swear ObamaCare not a factor in firings

 

Obama officials made clear in a press briefing that firms would not be allowed to lay off workers to get into the preferred class of those businesses with 50 to 99 employees. How will the feds know what employers were thinking when hiring and firing? Simple. Firms will be required to certify to the IRS – under penalty of perjury – that ObamaCare was not a motivating factor in their staffing decisions.

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#35
Alan Chapman

Alan Chapman

  • 4663 posts

Maryland to reportedly abandon $125M ObamaCare exchange for new system


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