Freedomain Radio

So I came across this "How stuff works" article with the 10 biggest lies ordered according to some criteria I don't know about.

http://history.howstuffworks.com/american-history/10-biggest-lies-in-history.htm

Their list starts with the Trojan Horse, although I never considered this more than just fiction and don't know why it should even make the list. Next they have Han van Meegeren's Vermeer Forgeries (again dunno why it makes the list), next is Bernie Madoff's Ponzi Scheme (leaving out social security in the US which is itself like a Ponzi Scheme, but only worse because it's involuntary), and next one is Anna Anderson, Alias Anastasia (the woman who passed herself as a descendant of the rulers of Russia slaughtered by the communist revolution, of course instead of denouncing Communism as one of the biggest lies in history). There are other lies on the list, including the Clinton/Lewinsky affair in number 3. Nixon Watergate comes in 2nd. The Nazi propaganda framing the Jews for the ills of the world shows up on top.

It got me thinking, what would the FDR community list as the top 10 Lies in History??

Here's my list. I hope to read yours:

#10. The Divine Right of Kings
#9. The Devil
#8. Gods
#7. Socialism
#6. Voting
#5. Paper Money
#4. The Afterlife
#3. Formal Education
#2. God
#1. Violent Discipline

I'm gonna call on the help of the deceased George Carlin and work some magic on your list.

Two, four, eight nine and ten can all be condensed into "mysticism". Six and Seven can be combined to form "government". Five should actually be changed to "fiat currency", since the four quarters in my piggy bank are (virtually) just as worthless as the dollar bill in my pocket.

So now we're down to:

#1 Violent disclipine

#2 Government

#3 Mysticism

#4 Fiat Currency

#5 Formal Education

Now that I think of it, fiat currency is a construct of government and in reality... government is a form of mysticism. Not to mention, violent discipline is really just a subset of violence in general which, when used to solve any kind of problem (self defense notwithstanding) is a complete and utter fantasy. Formal education, in a free society, would be a very valuable asset, so it's out.

So now... I think we're down to just one word that accurately descibes all of the above and more:

Mysticism

Does that make sense?

Oh, and don't forget: The "golden" years before the industrial revolution. Where everyone lived at peace with eachother and with nature.

bbeljefe:

I'm gonna call on the help of the deceased George Carlin and work some magic on your list.

 

Two, four, eight nine and ten can all be condensed into "mysticism". Six and Seven can be combined to form "government". Five should actually be changed to "fiat currency", since the four quarters in my piggy bank are (virtually) just as worthless as the dollar bill in my pocket.

 

So now we're down to:

#1 Violent disclipine

#2 Government

#3 Mysticism

#4 Fiat Currency

#5 Formal Education

 

Now that I think of it, fiat currency is a construct of government and in reality... government is a form of mysticism. Not to mention, violent discipline is really just a subset of violence in general which, when used to solve any kind of problem (self defense notwithstanding) is a complete and utter fantasy. Formal education, in a free society, would be a very valuable asset, so it's out.

 

So now... I think we're down to just one word that accurately descibes all of the above and more:

 

Mysticism

 

Does that make sense?

That seems to be a reductionist view, pushing everything that appears to be negative under the label of 'mysticism'. This is silly because it necessarily makes communication seemingly unnecessary about a wide range of topics by labeling them under one concept and then conveniently tossing it in the garbage.  This is equally problematic because so-called mystics don't agree to many of these 'lies', and many so-called 'rationalists' do.  People must not underestimate the power to rationalize bad things, which is wholy other than saying it is beyond normal consciousness or available only through initiation as in mysticism.  People often times honest about bad things as well.

Fiat currency is neither worthless nor a lie (it exists and you can buy things with it, even if it is a poor substitute for backed money).  And formal education is neither a lie nor something one should accept as good simply because 'it is an asset' (argument from effect).  You must say what it is lying about in order to say it is a lie.

What is a lie about violent discipline?  It goes on all across the world.  To say it is a lie is itself a lie. 

What is more correct is to put things into clear sentences instead of simply listing things you think are negative.

#10. Kings got their power via God.
#9. The devil exists.
#8. Numerous gods exist.
#7. Socialism produces wealth and equality.
#6. Voting means that you are a member of the state.
#5. Paper Money has an objective value.
#4. The soul lives on after one's death.
#3. Formal Education will produce equality and intelligence in the populace.
#2. God exists.
#1. Violent Discipline is the best way to raise one's children.

Here's my rough-draft of a list:

6. Free markets can fail (i.e., provide goods that are inferior to government).
5. A government can improve the economy overall. 
4. Voting legitimizes a government's use of force.
3. Supernatural beings exist. 
2. Children need discipline. 
1. Greedo shot first. 

Victor:

#10. The Divine Right of Kings
#9. The Devil
#8. Gods
#7. Socialism
#6. Voting
#5. Paper Money
#4. The Afterlife
#3. Formal Education
#2. God
#1. Violent Discipline

 

No need to change it, your list pretty much covers it, and in the same order I would have chosen as well.  Well done.

Magnus:

Here's my rough-draft of a list:

6. Free markets can fail (i.e., provide goods that are inferior to government).
5. A government can improve the economy overall.

These two are the same thing aren't they? After all doesn't saying 6 is correct assume 5?

But here's a short list for me:

4. Human society requires violence to function.

3. Faith is a means of acquiring truth.

2. Children are bad (as opposed to the adults corrupting them being so).

Magnus:

 1. Greedo shot first. 

I think we've just found the objective biggest lie. I'm torn between gratitude that you've discovered it and jealousy that I didn't come up with it first.

AnarchicOptimism:

Magnus:

Here's my rough-draft of a list:

6. Free markets can fail (i.e., provide goods that are inferior to government).
5. A government can improve the economy overall.

These two are the same thing aren't they? After all doesn't saying 6 is correct assume 5?

They're similar ideas, I think, but not the same. 

The first refers to a government-run enterprise, like utilities, road-building, post offices, AmTrak, and schools.  They're based on the lie that these goods have some sort of unique quality that requires they be provided by a governmental organization. 

The second is similar but much broader. It refers to the idea that regulation (as opposed to an enterprise) will improve the economy.  We see this in mandates, protectionism, price-fixing, IP, barriers to entry, etc.  The most recent is the "monopoly" crack-down on Apple. The government here does not pretend to be running a business, but instead functioning as a kind of omniscient, selfless benefactor of gratuitous goodness.