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Latest post Fri, May 4 2012 2:32 AM by sandman. 82 replies.
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  • Mon, Mar 12 2012 1:53 PM

    • Victor
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Jan 11 2008
    • Dominican Republic
    • Posts 1,214
    • Silver Donator

    Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    Here is his video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STVroomdCRM&feature=youtu.be

    And here is my comment:

    "I don't agree with what is said here and I have many problems with it. I don't want to debate you. I want to say that I encountered Freedomainradio over 4 years ago and was powerfully moved. It changed all that mattered about my life for the better. I too was excited and eager to post a lot and put out podcasts and videos. But I quickly learned that, if I really wanted my message to have traction and be powerful as Stefan Molyneux's message, I needed to accompany it with real life results out of living the values I wanted to promote. Donating to someone who requests it as retribution, specially someone who has produced something as important to me as FDR has been, is just the first and probably most important part about living the values of voluntarism. It is just the decent and honorable thing to do after receiving so much. Since I started to live the values my life has improved beyond what I could conceive back then. Not only my personal life (I now share my life with a wonderful woman and we're expecting a baby girl), but in my professional life I'm a lot more productive and valued, to the point that I'm making 140% more money now that what I was making back then. Just this week I'm accepting an offer to become Project Manager for an outsourcing company to Verizon. Back then I worked the phone as a Tech support agent. I donated to FDR for more reasons than just reciprocity with Stef. I am proud of the quality of the site and I'm very happy that this resource is there and I can use it as a source to point people at. I feel proud that my values and the philosophy I accept wholeheartedly are so professionally represented with such high quality, and I understand this costs money and it's us, the community of supporters, who are to thank for it. Now, the community has a lot of members and there are established methods for resolving disputes. I have seen these methods rarely fail. And when that has happened I have also seen quick attention and corrections put in place. Such a failure occurred with you on the message boards, and there was a correction put in place, after I and many others requested the situation was reviewed. I stood by you and saw an agreeable resolution was offered; one which you accepted, but later disregarded. I stood by you back then for principle. Now, for principle again, I stand by Freedomainradio, the most powerful and positive resource for freedom the world has ever seen. I don't respect at all people who've received so much from this resource putting out videos against it. I'm sorry this got to this point where restitution on your side is so difficult and unlikely, because I would love to give you a chance to fix this."

    I won't let go of past me, but rather invite him to chill at my birthday.

  • Mon, Mar 12 2012 2:40 PM In reply to

    • Stephen C
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Jun 5 2008
    • Brooklyn, NY
    • Posts 785
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    I listened to a podcast recently that I hadn't heard in awhile. Great refresher. 

    http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_798_Sex_And_Enlightenment.mp3

    "You'll hate it a good percentage of the time."

    "And you'll hate me as your coach, you'll absolutely hate me as your coach."

    Oh boy, am I familiar with that road. 

    Sorry, coach!

    - "It's just whatever grows from the seed called honesty, and the watering of the tears of loss. Whatever grows from that is your True Self." - Stef

    - "people don't care what you know until they know you care" ~Aldo Pucci

    ‎"compassion is the engine that makes caring happen and without compassion, intellect becomes a monster"

    - "a self attack is what happens when we FORGET something. we attack ourselves whenever we forgot who we are. when we separate from the love that we are, we start to fight with ourselves but we forgot that we don't like to fight because we are love." 

    - "the things that people say are their worst qualities are usually their finest qualities when you can find this to be true in you, you will find a much better opinion of yourself" ~ Dee

    "Loss of empathy might well be the most enduring and deepest-cutting scar of all, the silent blade of an unseen enemy, tearing at our hearts and stealing more than our strength. Stealing our will, for what are we without empathy? What manner of joy might we find in our lives if we cannot understand the joys and pains of those around us, if we cannot share in the greater community?"
    -Drizzt Do'urden

     

  • Tue, Mar 13 2012 10:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    I just found this one as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHGU-YZJN0Q

    I think it was extremely articulate and logical. I heard nothing objectionable or abusive. Towards the end I learned that Jeg has been permanently banned from this forum, which I think is regrettable. Like I've said before, I think he's got some really interesting and thought-provoking ideas. I only wish that he had been able to write as clearly as he speaks, because I think he had a lot to offer and wasn't given a fair chance. Alas. At least he's still on youtube.

  • Wed, Mar 14 2012 4:26 AM In reply to

    • sandman
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Jun 9 2009
    • near Hamburg, Germany
    • Posts 133
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    I think that Annabelle is right. His banning is regrettable. I know how difficult it is to handle a board and I don't put blame on James at all. He has tried to manage this dispute as good as possible. But I also think that there were "donators" (like Seb calls them" who didn't like Sebastian because of his writing-style, his thoughts and the fact that he doesn't donate and asks for donations himself. That was clearly visuable in the discussions about his banning. Maybe James was influenced too much by those members, maybe not. Only James can judge this.

    Not all donators want him to be banned.

     

    I think this banning was a mistake.

    Sorry for my english!

  • Wed, Mar 14 2012 10:31 AM In reply to

    • hkw
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on Sat, Apr 18 2009
    • Posts 647
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    Victor, did you leave that comment on his YouTube videos somewhere? I didn't see it on the video you linked to.

    "Borders Are Imaginary Lines" T-Shirt: http://kck.st/120hI7K

  • Wed, Mar 14 2012 11:34 AM In reply to

    • JamesP
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, May 28 2007
    • Westminster, Colorado
    • Posts 3,525
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    None of this is about me, Stef, Freedomain Radio, or donations.

  • Thu, Mar 15 2012 12:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    JamesP:

    None of this is about me, Stef, Freedomain Radio, or donations.

    I'm curious to know what you mean by "this."  What I've quoted is usually said at FDR in the wake of a person angrily lashing out at you, Stef, or FDR, but from my perspective Jeg hasn't done that.  In case you didn't watch the videos, here's a super brief summary:

    - He didn't have much negative to say about Stef, and in fact he praised Stef in a number of places.

    - I don't recall him saying anything negative about you, either. He said that he believes his original banning was illegitimate (i.e. he didn't break a forum rule, and Stef did not request that he be banned), that it was based on a whim of yours and buoyed by support from others here. With the limited amount of information I have about the events that took place, this seems like a reasonable interpretation. If I'm missing an important part of the story, I'd love to hear it.

    - He didn't even speak ill of FDR, as in the people who listen to the show, post on the forums, and maybe make donations.  What he said was that FDR is committed to the spread of something beyond just adherence to the NAP: FDR pushes an aesthetic agenda. Which, if you think about it, is true, and isn't necessarily a bad thing. Jeg seems to have different aesthetic preferences than people here. During his time here he (largely unsuccessfully) tried to start dialog about this, to create space for alternative aesthetics, etc, which I think is a healthy part of philosophical discourse. Now, being banned, he has no choice but to take his presence elsewhere. I see nothing wrong with using attention-grabbing titles for the videos. They weren't abusive. Stef does that sort of thing all the time.

     

    If you're interested in my take on forum administration as someone who did it for a number of years, here it is. I was pretty young at the time and I learned a ton from the experience. (Note: the "you" I use in the following is generic and mostly means "me" since I am writing about my experience. But if others find it useful, great!) To the extent that you are attempting to enforce and uphold the forum rules in a impartial manner, there is no need to feel personally slighted if someone gets upset at an action you have taken in your role as forum administrator. You are playing a role and you are upholding rules that they agreed to follow. In fact, tendency to take these things personally can make you afraid to act and can thus negatively impact your performance as an administrator. On the other hand, it is very important to try to keep your personal preferences out of it and just enforce the rules (amending them if deemed necessary). In my experience, the urge to moderate according to personal preferences (to feel that you have "become one" with the forum rules and can moderate based on intuition rather than with reference to explicit rules) can sneak up on you if you don't guard carefully against it. And marching right alongside it is the urge to not admit when you've done this, so as not to appear weak. It doesn't work out so well in the long run, as forum members can see what's going on and they lose respect for you and start acting out or leaving. I had to learn this one the hard way. I think the best way to foster a stable community is to have a stable set of rules that you uphold. That means not springing new rules on people you don't like, and also not favoring people and letting them get away with breaking rules. I've seen firsthand the negative effects of not following both halves of that piece of advice.

    I also know that being an administrator is hard work, and overall I think you're doing a great job! But like I said above, I do think it's regrettable how this Jeg situation turned out.

  • Thu, Mar 15 2012 2:00 AM In reply to

    • Stephen C
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Jun 5 2008
    • Brooklyn, NY
    • Posts 785
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    Annabelle:

    JamesP:

    None of this is about me, Stef, Freedomain Radio, or donations.

    I'm curious to know what you mean by "this."  What I've quoted is usually said at FDR in the wake of a person angrily lashing out at you, Stef, or FDR, but from my perspective Jeg hasn't done that.  In case you didn't watch the videos, here's a super brief summary:

    - He didn't have much negative to say about Stef, and in fact he praised Stef in a number of places.

    - I don't recall him saying anything negative about you, either. He said that he believes his original banning was illegitimate (i.e. he didn't break a forum rule, and Stef did not request that he be banned), that it was based on a whim of yours and buoyed by support from others here. With the limited amount of information I have about the events that took place, this seems like a reasonable interpretation. If I'm missing an important part of the story, I'd love to hear it.

    - He didn't even speak ill of FDR, as in the people who listen to the show, post on the forums, and maybe make donations.  What he said was that FDR is committed to the spread of something beyond just adherence to the NAP: FDR pushes an aesthetic agenda. Which, if you think about it, is true, and isn't necessarily a bad thing. Jeg seems to have different aesthetic preferences than people here. During his time here he (largely unsuccessfully) tried to start dialog about this, to create space for alternative aesthetics, etc, which I think is a healthy part of philosophical discourse. Now, being banned, he has no choice but to take his presence elsewhere. I see nothing wrong with using attention-grabbing titles for the videos. They weren't abusive. Stef does that sort of thing all the time.

     

    If you're interested in my take on forum administration as someone who did it for a number of years, here it is. I was pretty young at the time and I learned a ton from the experience. (Note: the "you" I use in the following is generic and mostly means "me" since I am writing about my experience. But if others find it useful, great!) To the extent that you are attempting to enforce and uphold the forum rules in a impartial manner, there is no need to feel personally slighted if someone gets upset at an action you have taken in your role as forum administrator. You are playing a role and you are upholding rules that they agreed to follow. In fact, tendency to take these things personally can make you afraid to act and can thus negatively impact your performance as an administrator. On the other hand, it is very important to try to keep your personal preferences out of it and just enforce the rules (amending them if deemed necessary). In my experience, the urge to moderate according to personal preferences (to feel that you have "become one" with the forum rules and can moderate based on intuition rather than with reference to explicit rules) can sneak up on you if you don't guard carefully against it. And marching right alongside it is the urge to not admit when you've done this, so as not to appear weak. It doesn't work out so well in the long run, as forum members can see what's going on and they lose respect for you and start acting out or leaving. I had to learn this one the hard way. I think the best way to foster a stable community is to have a stable set of rules that you uphold. That means not springing new rules on people you don't like, and also not favoring people and letting them get away with breaking rules. I've seen firsthand the negative effects of not following both halves of that piece of advice.

    I also know that being an administrator is hard work, and overall I think you're doing a great job! But like I said above, I do think it's regrettable how this Jeg situation turned out.

    This post has nothing to do with Stef, Freedomainradio, James, Jegsomheter, forum administration and you are not really curious about what James means by "this"?

    - "It's just whatever grows from the seed called honesty, and the watering of the tears of loss. Whatever grows from that is your True Self." - Stef

    - "people don't care what you know until they know you care" ~Aldo Pucci

    ‎"compassion is the engine that makes caring happen and without compassion, intellect becomes a monster"

    - "a self attack is what happens when we FORGET something. we attack ourselves whenever we forgot who we are. when we separate from the love that we are, we start to fight with ourselves but we forgot that we don't like to fight because we are love." 

    - "the things that people say are their worst qualities are usually their finest qualities when you can find this to be true in you, you will find a much better opinion of yourself" ~ Dee

    "Loss of empathy might well be the most enduring and deepest-cutting scar of all, the silent blade of an unseen enemy, tearing at our hearts and stealing more than our strength. Stealing our will, for what are we without empathy? What manner of joy might we find in our lives if we cannot understand the joys and pains of those around us, if we cannot share in the greater community?"
    -Drizzt Do'urden

     

  • Thu, Mar 15 2012 2:03 AM In reply to

    • Stephen C
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Jun 5 2008
    • Brooklyn, NY
    • Posts 785
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    JamesP:

    None of this is about me, Stef, Freedomain Radio, or donations.

    This post has nothing to do with this thread having nothing to do with Stef, Freedomain Radio, or donations?

     

    - "It's just whatever grows from the seed called honesty, and the watering of the tears of loss. Whatever grows from that is your True Self." - Stef

    - "people don't care what you know until they know you care" ~Aldo Pucci

    ‎"compassion is the engine that makes caring happen and without compassion, intellect becomes a monster"

    - "a self attack is what happens when we FORGET something. we attack ourselves whenever we forgot who we are. when we separate from the love that we are, we start to fight with ourselves but we forgot that we don't like to fight because we are love." 

    - "the things that people say are their worst qualities are usually their finest qualities when you can find this to be true in you, you will find a much better opinion of yourself" ~ Dee

    "Loss of empathy might well be the most enduring and deepest-cutting scar of all, the silent blade of an unseen enemy, tearing at our hearts and stealing more than our strength. Stealing our will, for what are we without empathy? What manner of joy might we find in our lives if we cannot understand the joys and pains of those around us, if we cannot share in the greater community?"
    -Drizzt Do'urden

     

  • Thu, Mar 15 2012 2:15 AM In reply to

    • Stephen C
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Jun 5 2008
    • Brooklyn, NY
    • Posts 785
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    Stephen C:

    I listened to a podcast recently that I hadn't heard in awhile. Great refresher. 

    http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_798_Sex_And_Enlightenment.mp3

    "You'll hate it a good percentage of the time."

    "And you'll hate me as your coach, you'll absolutely hate me as your coach."

    Oh boy, am I familiar with that road. 

    Sorry, coach!

    You're projecting. 

    - "It's just whatever grows from the seed called honesty, and the watering of the tears of loss. Whatever grows from that is your True Self." - Stef

    - "people don't care what you know until they know you care" ~Aldo Pucci

    ‎"compassion is the engine that makes caring happen and without compassion, intellect becomes a monster"

    - "a self attack is what happens when we FORGET something. we attack ourselves whenever we forgot who we are. when we separate from the love that we are, we start to fight with ourselves but we forgot that we don't like to fight because we are love." 

    - "the things that people say are their worst qualities are usually their finest qualities when you can find this to be true in you, you will find a much better opinion of yourself" ~ Dee

    "Loss of empathy might well be the most enduring and deepest-cutting scar of all, the silent blade of an unseen enemy, tearing at our hearts and stealing more than our strength. Stealing our will, for what are we without empathy? What manner of joy might we find in our lives if we cannot understand the joys and pains of those around us, if we cannot share in the greater community?"
    -Drizzt Do'urden

     

  • Thu, Mar 15 2012 4:14 AM In reply to

    • sandman
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Jun 9 2009
    • near Hamburg, Germany
    • Posts 133
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    @Stephen C

    Could you please help me to find the value in your last three posts? I can't find any but maybe I'm missing something. 

    On the other hand I see value in Annabelles post. Why do you say that she is not curious?

    Sorry for my english!

  • Thu, Mar 15 2012 8:06 AM In reply to

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    Stephen C:

    This post has nothing to do with Stef, Freedomainradio, James, Jegsomheter, forum administration and you are not really curious about what James means by "this"?

    I'm not sure if you're serious here given the other two posts, but in any case...

    I believe I've made some posts on here about the subjectivity of the human viewpoint given our limited perspective of the world, limited capacity for storing information, and differing backgrounds. I find it fascinating how my perception of an event can differ quite drastically from that of someone else who experienced the same event, particularly when that event is a disagreement of some sort. I think one way to increase my objectivity in such situations is to make these comparisons whenever the opportunity presents itself, and learn from them.

    So yes, I will often in all earnestness request other people's perceptions of events. And in the interest of saving time in non-realtime communications, I often combine such a request with my own take on the events, for others who also want to get multiple perspectives on the situation.

  • Thu, Mar 15 2012 8:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    Isn't banning someone from a forum, regardless of one's own like or dislike of it, just another aesthetic preference to be respected?

    Are some aesthetics preferable to others?

    Huh?

  • Thu, Mar 15 2012 8:39 AM In reply to

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    He banned himself. Give Seb the respect of responsibility.

    Please join the new Freedomain Radio Facebook page:

    Freedomain Radio | Promote Your Page Too


    My status

  • Thu, Mar 15 2012 8:47 AM In reply to

    • sandman
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Jun 9 2009
    • near Hamburg, Germany
    • Posts 133
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Sebastian posted a video on FB titled Against Freedomain

    Aesthetic preferences are subjective, so there is no better or worse. I respect the banning because of property rights. No doubt. 

    Victor brought this topic up and I thought I could present my opinion. Smile

     

    Sorry for my english!

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