Freedomain Radio

Yessiree, my last girlfriend of almost five years was a wonderful individual, but alas, she was a hard-core socialist. No kidding, and as "live and let live" as I am, not sharing the same values in that all important area of philosophy was a serious issue at times. Like when she told me one month after Obama was elected that no matter what, she will vote for him again in the next election. Huh? But what if the guy ends up not ending the wars, and not ending the Patriot Act, and blowing up the Keynesian wet dream of free money-on-demand to pay for make-work programs, etc., etc.?  See, it wasn't so much that she was a socialist, but it was the lack of using ones reasoning ability, plus, being stuck in that partisan republicrat/demican thing was shocking to me. Granted, I would have reacted the same had McCain won, and she swore to vote for him the next time only one month after being in office too. But as one who recently awakened from years of being a Libertarian minarchist to anarcho capitalist, perhaps the points I used when discussing these issues were negated on a deep subconscious level because she understood the paradox, folly, and failure of minarchism? After accessing the last four plus years with her, I have come to the conclusion that IF I am ever to be involved in another long-term relationship, that it must be with someone that truly "gets me" and I her. Of course that means she must understand and be as passionate about this philosophy as I am.

So here I am in the San Diego area wondering the following...

I'm pretty sure I could coexist quite well with someone that was just a Libertarian, but as narrow as the field is for female Libertarians, it must be infinitesimally smaller for Anarcho-Capitalist women. Right? Is there anyone reading this that has found their Anarcho-Capitalist soulmate? How did you find them? Did you both grow into this philosophy together? Or was this individual already there when you met them?

Thanks for reading this.

Stephen

Stephen,

My husband and I are both awake and honest (anarcho-capitalist thinking). We met at massage therapy school last fall, and now, less than a year of dating later, we are not only best friends but husband and wife. I suppose women with beliefs like mine are far and few in between. I'm sure there are a few true anarcho/capitalists thinkers out there. But the best bet, I think, is being open to anyone, as you never know who's mind is open and on the search for honesty. 

Five years ago I was doing all the motions of an avid christian and puritian. I was raised in a tight knit family and a faith that followed strict tradition. Yet, as a child I always questioned. I maintained my honesty. Anyways, I will spare details. The point of the story is that I started questioning everything and started backing away from everything. I started researching and seeking out others that thought like me. Then, I met my husband, and he helped me tye everything together. The point is--the women you may be looking for might not be a libertarian, or anarcho-capitalist yet so never rule 'them' out. 

Cheers!

 

Thanks for sharing, genesa.  A motivational thought for someone in the same situation.  I'm sure not an uncommon situation around here.   Indeed, what I think we want to look for is not adherence to any specific ideas, but rather curiousity and openess.  With enough of that, the rest will fall into place. To use a metaphor from Stef, if you are in the middle of the forest, and you want a house, you don't go looking to buy one.  Rather, you have to build one.

Yes I agree. I think the key is not so much the anarcho-capitalist thing but finding someone open and honest that is a genuine seeker of the truth.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Stephen

magentawave:

Yessiree, my last girlfriend of almost five years was a wonderful individual, but alas, she was a hard-core socialist. ,,, one month after Obama was elected that no matter what, she will vote for him again in the next election. Huh?

 

lmao I don't know one person in Scotland who self-identifies as a socialist that has a good word to say about Obama

Except for maybe supporters of the Labour Party but "they're not socialists they're social democrats" as socialists say

If it makes you feel any better "capitalism" is the dirtiest world in the dictionary in Scotland, apart from maybe "tory"

All the political activists here are on the far left, you would never find a single freemarketeer
Although i self-identify as an anarchist, I have to limit my conversations on politics to things we agree on like the war and the bail outs
I try to steer conversations about corporations onto how coporation is a legal fiction created by the state
and those about "greedy bankers" onto the state regulations that created the system

I always just try to point out the role of the state in creating the situation that a socialist complains about, they usually sound interested and agree with you

magentawave:

Like when she told me one month after Obama was elected that no matter what, she will vote for him again in the next election. Huh?

I personally can't imagine her relationship with her father was superb.

Maybe that is why Stefan often uses the term "market-anarchist" instead cuz "market" sounds a little more warm and fuzzy than capitalist?

magentawave:

Maybe that is why Stefan often uses the term "market-anarchist" instead cuz "market" sounds a little more warm and fuzzy than capitalist?

as far as a lot of people are concerned "capitalism" implies state as their are no "corporations" without state

 

I identify as an anarchist-without-adjectives if pressed and i think that most accurately reflets my views

Mr. C:

magentawave:

Like when she told me one month after Obama was elected that no matter what, she will vote for him again in the next election. Huh?

I personally can't imagine her relationship with her father was superb.

Its interesting you say that because her mother moved her away from the alcoholic father when she was only four years old to a different country (from Equador to Paraguay) under the pretense of it being a vacation. She didn't see her father again until she lived with him for a couple years when she was sixteen. To this day she has no relationship with her father. She was very close to her grandfather until he passed away when she was sixteen. One of the biggest problems in our relationship, by her own admission, was her abandonment issues. Sadly, we were never able to make progress in counselling because she would deny having that problem due to her ego. What is the correlation between her saying she would vote for Obama again (after only one month in office) and her father issues?

magentawave:

What is the correlation between her saying she would vote for Obama again (after only one month in office) and her father issues?

Obama is successful because of his messianic and fatherly image, not because of anything political or moral at all, which you can see by his rather lackluster adherence to any principles and his lack of any real change from past presidents. I remember going to college in Illinois back when he campaigned and was elected a senator of that state, and I remember watching him and some of the students' reactions to him, and I had the idea back then that he would go on to become president because of the image he projected, how no one else even came close to him on that, and how empirically powerful the effect of that was on people (even on me and I was a market anarchist back then). That was quite right. Hope and change indeed.

Kids don't want their parents to leave. When they do, they almost always idealize the parent that left either directly or with a substitute for that parent. Because Obama is essentially a new father in some minor way, she would hardly want him to leave that position and it would hardly matter what he'd actually do. This matches what she did in getting close to her grandfather until he abandoned her in death, making things worse and causing her to seek out a replacement. She does this so that she doesn't have to feel the pain of what happened to her by pretending her relationship with her father is currently great, not because she has a big ego, which is only a distraction.

My maternal grandmother was the same with Clinton, where she said she was voting for him a second time because he was "her man", like a husband (which says quite a bit about her own childhood and horrid marriage). On a family visit to my mother's parents, my father argued with her about Clinton's political and moral failings, but she didn't care about the arguments, just telling us that he was, as I realize now, her fantasy-based husband.

You can tell a lot about who will support a politician based on what role he or she is playing and what the supporter has missed out on in life. Your girlfriend missed out on a great father. My grandmother missed out on a lovable, forgiveable (because he's sexy) husband. They loved the presidents who were the best actors for those roles, regardless of what they did while off-stage.

This is all just my opinion of course, except for the part about abandonment victims idealizing the parents who abandoned them, which is well known. I hope it helps.

My girlfriend is still clinging on to her socialist tendancies, but I've gotten her to accept the moral argument that the initiation of the use of force is wrong. Since then all her arguments for the state have been a bit comical and pretty weak. Like people should be required to pay some kind of money towards social services but the should be able to choose which services and stop paying for them if they think the money is being stolen or missused. "Do I still have the right to disagree without you using violence against me?" Once you can get someone to accept the moral argument the state loses all of it's power.

I think she's still going to vote for Obama though, but just out of fear. She doesn't actually support him, she's just terrified of the republican candidates. She also thinks that the state could be reformed in some way to be a positive force basically on the grounds that we need some kind of group to protect the environment and the poor. I've convinced her that anarcho-capitalism is the best way to protect the environment, but she thinks that it just wouldn't work at the moment.

MattPolofka:

I think she's still going to vote for Obama though, but just out of fear. She doesn't actually support him, she's just terrified of the republican candidates. She also thinks that the state could be reformed in some way to be a positive force basically on the grounds that we need some kind of group to protect the environment and the poor. I've convinced her that anarcho-capitalism is the best way to protect the environment, but she thinks that it just wouldn't work at the moment.

People usually learn about power from the way their parents exercise it over them during the years they're figuring out how the world works. Before they get too far in life, they 'know' how the world works and this is very hard to change, even if they accept a few intellectual principles that contradict it.

Maybe this is a stretch, so I have no idea if it's true, but does she have a parent who she thinks is needed to protect the emotional environment and vulnerable family members from what the terrifying people in the family want to do?

MattPolofka:

My girlfriend is still clinging on to her socialist tendancies, but I've gotten her to accept the moral argument that the initiation of the use of force is wrong. Since then all her arguments for the state have been a bit comical and pretty weak. Like people should be required to pay some kind of money towards social services but the should be able to choose which services and stop paying for them if they think the money is being stolen or missused. "Do I still have the right to disagree without you using violence against me?" Once you can get someone to accept the moral argument the state loses all of it's power.

I think she's still going to vote for Obama though, but just out of fear. She doesn't actually support him, she's just terrified of the republican candidates. She also thinks that the state could be reformed in some way to be a positive force basically on the grounds that we need some kind of group to protect the environment and the poor. I've convinced her that anarcho-capitalism is the best way to protect the environment, but she thinks that it just wouldn't work at the moment.

Yes, that question that Stefan suggested: "Do I still have the right to disagree without you using violence against me?" is brilliant. Perhaps mentioning that Obama signed NDAA would convince her to not vote at all, or if she has to vote, then vote for Ron Paul.

Stephen

Mr. C:

magentawave:

What is the correlation between her saying she would vote for Obama again (after only one month in office) and her father issues?

Obama is successful because of his messianic and fatherly image, not because of anything political or moral at all, which you can see by his rather lackluster adherence to any principles and his lack of any real change from past presidents. I remember going to college in Illinois back when he campaigned and was elected a senator of that state, and I remember watching him and some of the students' reactions to him, and I had the idea back then that he would go on to become president because of the image he projected, how no one else even came close to him on that, and how empirically powerful the effect of that was on people (even on me and I was a market anarchist back then). That was quite right. Hope and change indeed.

Kids don't want their parents to leave. When they do, they almost always idealize the parent that left either directly or with a substitute for that parent. Because Obama is essentially a new father in some minor way, she would hardly want him to leave that position and it would hardly matter what he'd actually do. This matches what she did in getting close to her grandfather until he abandoned her in death, making things worse and causing her to seek out a replacement. She does this so that she doesn't have to feel the pain of what happened to her by pretending her relationship with her father is currently great, not because she has a big ego, which is only a distraction.

My maternal grandmother was the same with Clinton, where she said she was voting for him a second time because he was "her man", like a husband (which says quite a bit about her own childhood and horrid marriage). On a family visit to my mother's parents, my father argued with her about Clinton's political and moral failings, but she didn't care about the arguments, just telling us that he was, as I realize now, her fantasy-based husband.

You can tell a lot about who will support a politician based on what role he or she is playing and what the supporter has missed out on in life. Your girlfriend missed out on a great father. My grandmother missed out on a lovable, forgiveable (because he's sexy) husband. They loved the presidents who were the best actors for those roles, regardless of what they did while off-stage.

This is all just my opinion of course, except for the part about abandonment victims idealizing the parents who abandoned them, which is well known. I hope it helps.

I never considered people would vote for an individual to fulfill the need for a parent figure or spouse, but it totally makes sense. And now that you mention this, I remember how women came out in droves to vote for Clinton just because they were so enamored of his looks.

Stephen