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Latest post Fri, Feb 3 2012 3:02 PM by Moridin. 22 replies.
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  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 4:22 PM

    • repka
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Sat, Oct 9 2010
    • Posts 184

    Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    I'm not a climate expert, but I thought that Cosmic Rays might have anything to do with Global Warming. This video says it is not the case:

    http://youtu.be/vvztL9r47MI

    Are there any other evidence that might prove that cosmic rays are the cause? I'm getting more and more convinced about Global Warming, eventhough I still favor free market sollutions.

    What do you think?

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 4:47 PM In reply to

    • GregG
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Feb 21 2006
    • Brooklyn, NY
    • Posts 14,288
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    Well, it's just a fact that global temperatures have risen over the last few thousand years. There's plenty of evidence for that. What is in dispute is its anthropogenic origin. And there's tons of lying going on around that, as well as threatening and moralizing. And how could it be any other way? They're completely invested not in science anymore, but in the pursuit of federal money and power.

    So, the real scientists can sit around debating whether man has a role to play, all they want, but until they purge themselves of the lying, bullying state-sucking toadies, I'll remain skeptical of all of it.

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 5:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

     

    Here(link) are some more good reasons not to believe that cosmic rays are the cause of global warming.

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 6:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    • Glaciers have been retreating for a long , long time.

    • Then, people showed up.

    • People now claim that humanity is the cause of glacial retreat.

    • A warmer world allows vegetation to grow, a colder, frozen world does not.

    • Therefore I can live, and others may live because the world is not getting colder.

    • I'm sort of ok with that.

     

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 8:15 PM In reply to

    • Iowa
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Oct 17 2011
    • Phoenix, AZ
    • Posts 58
    • Gold Donator

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    I believe there have been 5 or 6 times in earth's history where the entire planet was covered in an ice sheet a few miles thick, which pretty much left nothing but microbes to carry the flame of life on this planet. I do not believe that there has been a time where it has been too hot for life. In fact, warmth on this planet tends to have a life nuturing effect.

    But even this statement is useless. The climate changes. Constantly. There is no permanent equilibrium in our system. Is it getting warmer? I do not know. I do not trust the data. But let's pretend that we are warming. Then, let's put a pin on our point in the timeline and notice that we should be warming when we are coming out of a mini ice age, which ended just a few hundred years ago.

    The universe is a damn cold place. The dark side of Mercury will freeze your balls. If we are getting a few degrees, I will take it. This does not mean it is morally neutral to be wasteful or to violate property rights by polluting your neighbors. I am just saying that the data says we should be trending warmer, and climate will always change.

    It takes a long time, but god dies too,

    But not before he'll stick to you.

    -Modest Mouse

  • Fri, Dec 23 2011 3:35 AM In reply to

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    Iowa:
    I do not believe that there has been a time where it has been too hot for life.

    At one point in time, the earth was a ball of liquid molten rock. It was probably too hot back then, at least for water-dependent life.

  • Fri, Dec 23 2011 5:55 AM In reply to

    • Iowa
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Oct 17 2011
    • Phoenix, AZ
    • Posts 58
    • Gold Donator

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    Kremlin, perhaps I should have specified that I was talking about the post molten earth, which ended a few billion years ago. I think we can trust that molten earth is not coming back due to atmospheric conditions and barring a cosmic collision. This molten phase was caused by the coalescing of matter during the formation of the planet, not due to atmospheric conditions or a cycle of heating and cooling in the dynamic system of the atmosphere. 

    It takes a long time, but god dies too,

    But not before he'll stick to you.

    -Modest Mouse

  • Fri, Dec 23 2011 8:56 AM In reply to

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    Take two of these, hope they're useful.

     

    FDR 239 Global Warming as Metaphor

    FDR 431 Fearing Global Warming

     

    Wash down with this:

  • Fri, Dec 23 2011 10:38 AM In reply to

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    I only heard about cosmic galactic rays a couple of weeks ago, and about even this one facet of the weather interests, I am still learning and letting what I come across sink in to the forming-opinions zone of my cranium. 

    Caution is one thing humans aren't noted for - they fire up millions of engines in a few-year period, they jump to world wide restrictions without questioning the nature of governmental projects (often achieving the opposite of what they propose to accomplish) but I'm trying to be cautious about my incubating potential opinion on global warming, or global warming bullshit, whichever it ultimately becomes.

  • Fri, Dec 23 2011 1:01 PM In reply to

    • JKPgamer
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Oct 16 2011
    • Amarillo TX
    • Posts 96

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    Just wanted to add I saw a Penn & Teller B.S. episode about global warming:  They said in a nutshell that while the earth is changing and they are genuine problems to be concerned with, the same scientists that now say "global warming will be the end of us" were saying 30 years ago "another ice age is coming soon."  It's one of those things that it seems scientists are taking the data and instead of looking empirically as a whole they are making false conclusions.

                                                                     Hide your fires, these here are my desires,
                                                               and I won't give them up to you this time around
                                                          and so I'll be found with my stake stuck here in this ground
                                                               marking the territory of this newly impassioned soul.
                                                      and you, you've gone to far this time you have neither reason nor rhyme
                                                                   to take this soul that is so rightfully MINE!

                                                                                                          -Roll Away Your Stone, Mumford & Sons

     

  • Sat, Dec 24 2011 5:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    JKPgamer:
    They said in a nutshell that while the earth is changing and they are genuine problems to be concerned with, the same scientists that now say "global warming will be the end of us" were saying 30 years ago "another ice age is coming soon."

     

    Not really.

  • Sat, Dec 24 2011 7:56 PM In reply to

    • JKPgamer
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Oct 16 2011
    • Amarillo TX
    • Posts 96

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    Eric Starnes:

    JKPgamer:
    They said in a nutshell that while the earth is changing and they are genuine problems to be concerned with, the same scientists that now say "global warming will be the end of us" were saying 30 years ago "another ice age is coming soon."

     

    Not really.

    Hmmm...very interesting thank you for posting!

                                                                     Hide your fires, these here are my desires,
                                                               and I won't give them up to you this time around
                                                          and so I'll be found with my stake stuck here in this ground
                                                               marking the territory of this newly impassioned soul.
                                                      and you, you've gone to far this time you have neither reason nor rhyme
                                                                   to take this soul that is so rightfully MINE!

                                                                                                          -Roll Away Your Stone, Mumford & Sons

     

  • Sun, Dec 25 2011 4:13 AM In reply to

    • bnzss
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Sat, Feb 19 2011
    • UK
    • Posts 103

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    repka:

    I'm not a climate expert, but I thought that Cosmic Rays might have anything to do with Global Warming. This video says it is not the case:

    http://youtu.be/vvztL9r47MI

    Are there any other evidence that might prove that cosmic rays are the cause? I'm getting more and more convinced about Global Warming, eventhough I still favor free market sollutions.

    What do you think?

    I am also moving from a skeptical position to one of 'yeah, man-made global warming is reality, so let's deal with it'. In my experience, those who oppose its idea do so because it proves inconvenient to previously-held beliefs (even if those beliefs are logical sans global warming, such as free market advocates).

    Funnily enough I also agree that the free market and technology are what will help us; trying to mitigate is a bit like pissing in the wind, given political (and economic) realities.

  • Sun, Dec 25 2011 4:52 AM In reply to

    • repka
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Sat, Oct 9 2010
    • Posts 184

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    bnzss:

    I am also moving from a skeptical position to one of 'yeah, man-made global warming is reality, so let's deal with it'. In my experience, those who oppose its idea do so because it proves inconvenient to previously-held beliefs (even if those beliefs are logical sans global warming, such as free market advocates).

    Funnily enough I also agree that the free market and technology are what will help us; trying to mitigate is a bit like pissing in the wind, given political (and economic) realities.

    I completely agree. Unfortunetly, we can't blame every single thing on the "ruling class", even when they may (or may not) profit from it.

  • Sun, Dec 25 2011 9:44 AM In reply to

    Re: Cosmic Rays and Global Warming?

    I think it's wise to take in some of the wider issues around global warming, which I'll detail below. Context is part of any debated issue, I think, and while debating points tend toward the narrowing of focus, as they should, I've found it often quite pertinent to let the focus widen and to take in some "stray" "neighbourhood" information in the vicinity of any given question.

    As for the global warming issue, I notice that there is the aboriginal take on things. It's hard to not be impressed by the famous statement of Chief Seattle (very short, really) in which you find the quote about "you can't eat money." Given that there were from 50 to 80 million inhabitants of Turtle Island, or the New World, at the time of "discovery" by the Italian working for the Spanish crown, and that in a number that large, the very top of the mental elite of the about-to-be genocided had to be geniuses, their perspective on the care of nature should be taken in. 

    My first thought about the natives is to discount their views, because they just didn't have nature-restricting, nature-confonting, nature-controverting means. Europeans didn't either, at first, but they carried the seeds of today's technology within their culture, and so are more important in looking at the global warming situation. And it seems that some first-nation speakers are trading on the basis of their presumed racial innocence, so far as the ecology is concerned. 

    But, the idea that humanity may have overlooked something extremely valuable that nature offers us, that idea I have to accept. If we really saw, as if for the first time, the shocking beauty of our world, would we not be more cautious in all our endeavours? What size is our Earth? It depends - we've all looked out across the ocean or prairies, and felt the generosity of living space we inhabit - a world so large that its basic spherical shape is not discernable at all in such wide open spaces. Then, have you seen the photograph of the tiny blueish dot in the vast sea of darkness, of the same Earth, taken by one of our departing exploratory rockets in recent years?

    The men who rush to war and getting and maintaining the power to start a war at any time, any place, or to exploit any resource without the slightest caution in mind, or concern for the stability of the tiny blue dot - I feel about as far from these "aliens" (alien to my consciousness, that is) as that departing rocket must have been from its place of origin.

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