Freedomain Radio

I thought this lady might make for an interesting interview perhaps Stef.. If others found her content interesting enough.. I think she has quite an interlect, which is more than an equal amongst many at fdr.. Anyway, give it a thumbs up if you're interested people..

This book is also worth a read, it's very factual: http://www.warrenfarrell.org/

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Wow I agree with her :D She did a great job

Thanks everyone.. Particularly Theodoric who originally shared the video with me.. But the one insight this lady gave me, is how men will put themselves last against women and children.. Frankly, I still struggle with that myself.. I'm like. 'of course women and children come before me'.. But her insight made me stop in my tracks totally.. I was blown away by her argument, but I felt this increasing anxiety that to not abide by those old rules would make me less of a man.. Something to sit with for sure and a most interesting challenge to some of my core beliefs for sure.. Especially when it's said by a women too.. BTW, I still believe I would put a childs needs before mine..

This is a wonderful video, and I also feel sick and sad now.

Thanks alot for sharing this Patrick. I also really enjoyed this video.  I would also love to see Stef have a chat/interview with this person. I think it would be very intersting. She had some really interesting arguments that I found compelling.

Feminism has always made me feel uneasy, and this really helped me put a finger on why that is.

Beyond that, I thought she was way too polarizing and black-and-white.  Not to invalidate the experiences of any men who identify with what she was talking about, but there may be men who weren't treated like that, and there may be women who were treated like that.  I'd put myself in the latter category, for example.

I don't think we're going to overcome "men vs. women" issues until we stop thinking of the issues in terms of men vs. women.

I don't think we're going to come at all close to solving any issues of men and women, till we solve the issues of mothers and sons, and fathers and daughters.

That's what all of this is about really.  If a boy comes to believe he has to do things, lest he have no value to anyone, who do you think is telling him that?

Lowe:

I don't think we're going to come at all close to solving any issues of men and women, till we solve the issues of mothers and sons, and fathers and daughters.

That's what all of this is about really.  If a boy comes to believe he has to do things, lest he have no value to anyone, who do you think is telling him that?

There may well be boys whose mothers (or whoever) tell them things like this, but that doesn't mean all boys experience this, and it also doesn't mean only boys experience this.  I think oversimplifying the issue like she has done can only get you so far.  Like I said above, I do appreciate the clarity with which she has painted feminism -- another similarly flawed ideology.  If she had just left it at that I would have thought it was a great video.  What got to me was all the excess ranting around the sides about how all men are treated in X way, and all women have Y expectations, and the suggestions that the majority of life is lifeboat scenarios in which men are pitted against women in zero-sum, winner-take-all interactions.  Why get all worked up about these mental pictures when they are fundamentally a gross oversimplification?  It's likely to direct anger at the wrong places.  It upsets me that anyone is treated as if they are disposable, and I'm ok with leaving it at that.

EDIT - I'd also like to say that if this video has helped people see their own personal situations with more clarity, that's great.  But on a global level, in terms of -isms and ideologies (which it seems like she was getting at, since she didn't provide many specific examples), I'd really like to see us stop pitting ourselves against each other.  Thus I'd really like to see us stop thinking in polarizing terms when doing so is an oversimplification of what is really going on.  I'd rather see us try to embrace as much complexity as we possibly can, and see things for what they really are.

I get the impression that you are addressing a straw man.  I do not think feminists, men's rights writers, or the woman who made this video, generally speak in the absolutes you describe.  However vitriolic they often are, their arguments are usually sophisticated, from what I understand.  Perhaps I am mistaken in this assessment.

Along a similar vein to your point, though, I do observe that they, including girlsayswhat, often criticize society for the ill treatment of women or men.  This is a cop out IMO.  It is not society that teaches boys and girls how to treat themselves.  It's their parents.  I do not regard this as any kind of oversimplification, but as just the recognition of a fact.  I do not think any discussion about the improvement of conditions for men or women, can make real progress without recognizing this fact.

In my humble opinion, I think it would a supportive act to subscribe to this woman's channel.

Here is her blog:

http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com/

Yes, I do think we are thinking along the same lines.  For example, I'd reinforce your point by saying that each child is influenced by specific individuals.  Those individuals may be part of "society," but they act autonomously.  Change can only happen one individual at a time.