Freedomain Radio

i am just writing because i am sick of the protests going on here in bristol. they've set up what looks like a refugee camp on a nice bit of greenery outside the council house and the cathederal, none of which im a fan of but still, it just seems like a massive waste of time.

it would be ok if they actually had some good arguements, i will post their vids on youtube up so you can see for yourselves.

to me they are a different side of the same coin and seem like they've got nothing better to do, its a real shame. i doubt any of them have ever looked at ausrian economics stuff. i myself have little knowledge of this whole wall street, 99 percent stuff but it seems to me like a bunch of socialists wanting more free stuff and vilifying hard working buisness men. they want the government to do stuff for them, when to me, its that same government who caused all this.

anyway here are the vids, enjoy, i know i didnt....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsVPAZ3k-cQ

and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHSf-W_V5B8

its quite sad i feel for these people they just are going about it all in the wrong way .....

The cops just flushed out Zuccotti park here in NYC, this Monday. The place had been overrun by squatters leaving food garbage, waste paper, human waste, and other trash strewn all over. The encampment (which it had become) was completely barricading city occupants from usage of the park.That's really the irony. They call themselves "The 99%", but are in fact, a "1%" imposing their preferences on everyone else, as to how that park ought to be used.

I'm no fan of the police, or the use of violence, or even the use of violence to clear them out - and if we're going to criticize, I'm definitely on the side of criticizing the state first. But I certainly don't think the OWS movement was doing anything productive at all. The "movement", if you can call it that, really is tiresome. Every week there's a new set of demands, and each list gets more and more hysterical and ridiculous. The stream of ignorance and foolishness is constant and exhausting. Even worse, none of them seems to care that they're ignorant. None of them seems to want to correct that problem.

The most frightening thing about that, to me, is that many of these folks have degrees in, and are planning lives worked in, public administration, social science, and political science.

In otherwords, the a**h@les "occupying" Wall Street today, are going to be the Vogon troglodytes you have to face in 10 years, to get your driver's license renewed, or to obtain a "permit" for that patio add-on. They're going to be the ones giving subsidies to big corporations - only this time - it will be the ones they happen to prefer.

Yeah, it's kind of frustrating to hear all these subjective (often violent ones) objectives being banded around like a xmas day wish list. I have some sympathy for many of them mind, since they know something is up, but they are almost guarenteed to jump to all the wrong conclusions. Sadly I'm of the opinion that it will just end up being co-opted by some part of the ruling esablishment as a way to increase govt power.

This chap has a rather interesting view on the protest and some salutory points to make about getting your protest wrong.

GregG:

The most frightening thing about that, to me, is that many of these folks have degrees in, and are planning lives worked in, public administration, social science, and political science.

Greg, check out the brain on this Doktor Philosophiae...

http://occupyaustin.org/discuss/#/20111111/a-list-of-real-demands-and-real-solutions-1005824/

[refering to an earlier post of "demands"]...

I'm sorry to say so but many of the demands are vague and/or totally unrealistic. We cannot hope to achieve anything with such a wide range of vague and naive demands. The movement will eventually fizzle if we can't do better than that. I assume they were developed in a democratic manner through the Assemblies. However, it concerns that they seem to be the demands of one person, who proposes to be a candidate for President!!

I'm shocked. Is this the best we can do?

If we hope to continue toward national Occupy Movement objective of correcting the evils of a system that has concentrated wealth in the 1% while the 99% see constant erosion of their employment, income and funds for retirement in dignity, we have to be more realistic.

I suspect other Occupy groups are struggling with the same problem.

As much as we would like to think we can continue doing the same thing that spawned the movement, i.e. leaderless democracy, it will not bring the change we seek. Perhaps I'm being too impatient. Perhaps more realistic demands will evolve out of the process. Perhaps the various Occupy groups will naturally coalesce into a national organized political movement.

Or maybe we will just keep floundering until everyone finally gives up!!!

Here is my proposed list.

Get the money out of politics with a Constitutional Amendment declaring that corporations do not have the right of citizenship.

Pass legislation establishing public funding of political campaigns and minimal lobbying.

3. Eliminate subsidies for vested interests, especially large corporations.

4. Increase the tax rate on the rich (above $250,000).

5. Massive jobs stimulus spending.

6. Protect Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

7. Protect workers right to union bargaining.

8. Close military bases worldwide, end Iraq and Afghanistan occupation, stop funding the military-industrial complex.

Kelly M. Harrison, Phd
Political Economist

Ph.D., 1967, Michigan State University. Appointed as Ass't Prof. in Agricultural Economics and assigned to the position of Chief of Marketing Research Project (A.I.D.) in Recife, Brazil working for Michigan State University Overseas Research Project with Sudene Government Ministry of Brazil.

I worked adjacent to the Federal Reserve of Chicago and the Occupy Chicago protests. At noon today, there were a couple of End the Fed/Ron Paul folks and only one OWS person. I don't know if they were somewhere else or if it's the cold weather, but the protest appears to be ending in Chicago.

It's worth noting that Zucotti park is privately owned (hkw alerted this to me on Twitter).

Greg Minton:

It's worth noting that Zucotti park is privately owned (hkw alerted this to me on Twitter).

Quite right. But it's kind of a special case. It's what NYC Zoning calls a "privately owned public space". Part of a 1961 "incentive" zoning program that encouraged private businesses to provide open spaces for the public, in exchange for building code restriction variances.

Needless to say, its highly politicized. The city maintains a certain amount of jurisdiction over the spaces that it normally wouldn't have if it weren't for the nature of the program, and oddly enough there is some political pressure to eliminate them, coming from local residents.

Zucotti is currently named after the chairman of the company that owns the property (Brookfield Properties), John Zucotti.

GregG:

Greg Minton:

It's worth noting that Zucotti park is privately owned (hkw alerted this to me on Twitter).

Quite right. But it's kind of a special case. It's what NYC Zoning calls a "privately owned public space". Part of a 1961 "incentive" zoning program that encouraged private businesses to provide open spaces for the public, in exchange for building code restriction variances.

Needless to say, its highly politicized. The city maintains a certain amount of jurisdiction over the spaces that it normally wouldn't have if it weren't for the nature of the program, and oddly enough there is some political pressure to eliminate them, coming from local residents.

Zucotti is currently named after the chairman of the company that owns the property (Brookfield Properties), John Zucotti.

 

The fact that I still don't have the slightest clue how this works makes total sense, in a weird way.

Well sure. If the rules around property ownership were universal and easily understood, the state would have no purpose to exist. Arbitrary and inexplicable is the only constant, in the law.

Greg Minton:

GregG:

Greg Minton:

It's worth noting that Zucotti park is privately owned (hkw alerted this to me on Twitter).

Quite right. But it's kind of a special case. It's what NYC Zoning calls a "privately owned public space". Part of a 1961 "incentive" zoning program that encouraged private businesses to provide open spaces for the public, in exchange for building code restriction variances.

Needless to say, its highly politicized. The city maintains a certain amount of jurisdiction over the spaces that it normally wouldn't have if it weren't for the nature of the program, and oddly enough there is some political pressure to eliminate them, coming from local residents.

Zucotti is currently named after the chairman of the company that owns the property (Brookfield Properties), John Zucotti.

 

The fact that I still don't have the slightest clue how this works makes total sense, in a weird way.

i feel a bit guilty for bringing the subject up really. i mean the best thing for me is to ignore these people and let them get on with it whilst living my own productive life.

i guess the question i really should be asking myself is - why am bothered by it so much?

keithgel:

i feel a bit guilty for bringing the subject up really. i mean the best thing for me is to ignore these people and let them get on with it whilst living my own productive life.

Vogon troglodytes: would you like to hear some of my poetry?

keithgel:

99 percent stuff but it seems to me like a bunch of socialists wanting more free stuff and vilifying hard working buisness men. they want the government to do stuff for them, when to me, its that same government who caused all this.

Most of the protesters are adults in appearance only.

If you're familiar with Lord of the Flies then you probably know that, although the story is about children, it's really an allegory about society.