Freedomain Radio

Have you ever noticed how much people on these two forums HATE libertarians?

James Randi forums
http://forums.randi.org

Skeptics Guide to the Universe forums
http://sguforums.com

One would think a minority as disliked as atheists would feel a sense of community.  Not so there.  The levels of vitriol are impressive.

Any of you ever made the unpleasant mistake of mentioning human freedom on those forums?

Indeed, I've noticed and unfortunately became embroiled in several exchanges on the skeptic's forums before wisely retreating. They're all for the scientific method, just not when it comes to applying it to ethical principles and morality.

It would appear they have not been reasoned into their beliefs around the state and the NAP, therefore reason is of no use in changing that belief.

They got rid of the mystical god(s), but they hold onto the secular ones. If a coercive hierarchy isn't required for people to be good, then what does that say about how my family treated me as a child?

The State is their Jesus, but they don't realize it.

I am not familiar with these forums in particular, but I think it's pretty well understood that intellectuals are pretty cheap for the state to buy off, as a general rule.

I'm a fan of both these groups, their podcasts, and the work they do in general. I've wondered if those folks would be good seed ground for anarchism, especially since they already tend to be outright atheists. I guess I have my answer. That's unfortunate.

Fortunately, not all skeptics are vociferous shills for the State. Michael Shermer and Penn & Teller are libertarian.

Phil Plait has stated on his blog that he is partial to some libertarian ideas.

I'm a huge fan of Penn & Teller and also Michael Shermer / Skeptic Magazine, and it was through them that I discovered the skeptic community. Needless to say I was pretty disappointed when I found out that these fine gentlemen are politically in the minority in that crowd.

For me I can tell you that after I eradicated the faith in one area of my life (religion) I still needed something psychologically to hold onto. I didn't realize that I had been taught 2 religions in my youth.  I wasn't aware of what I was doing like I am now, but I clung to the belief, the faith in country and the so called 'American Dream' and the religion of our Founding Fathers.  Just listen to the title we have for them..'Founding Fathers'...sounds a lot like a religious group.  Add to that the Pledge of Allegiance and we begin to see a trend.

Besides that these so called Skeptics piss me off...I was referred to their website some few years ago.  I was already an agnostic mostly atheist at the time, but through watching their material and reading through their forums they struck me as a very Cynically minded group, snarky and snide comments all around, and this is coming from someone who agreed with them a lot of the time.  They're not converting any great masses to their cause with the methods and the cynicism they employ, and essentially I found them to be guilty of hypocrisy, which is why I stopped going to those forums.  I can't stand duplicity, even the delusional kind.  Hypocrisy you ask?  Yes.  They claim to be these Skeptics, and they love how that makes them appear.  Automatically the skeptic takes on all the authority in most conversations.  They will automatically assume that position even when the evidence is sound, purely for the psychological and emotional advantage that gives them.  In short, they aren't skeptics because that is a good practice in general so as not to be duped by all the BS floating around, instead they are skeptics because it makes them feel like they are kings and gods passing judgment on all us lesser creatures.  In even shorter prose, they forget that they should be skeptical even of their own skepticism, and follow Herbert Spencer's Quote   "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--  that principle is contempt prior to investigation." 

When you're focused on the evils of religion the State can unfortunately be a relatively neutral, objective party which tends to favor secularism and science rather than superstition.  So if you get some creationist stuff thrown out of a public school cirriculum or whatnot then the State looks like the good guy.  You also hear people calling for the taxation of churches which makes me wince until I get crow's feet.  Isn't the tax-exempt nature of churches and their subsequent ability to build lavish shrines an argument that EVERYBODY should get tax-emempt status rather than EVERYBODY should be brought under the same boot heel of big brother?  It's all just a different flavor of "Daddy, the big bad bully is being mean to me, go kick his ass!"

I have noticed that and I can attest to it from firsthand experience. About two months ago I attended a few Skeptic meetups in my area. At the first meetup I explained I'd discovered the Skeptics Meetup group via a group on Libertarianism and a few people were genuinely mystified as to how skepticism is related to Libertarianism. Upon further query I shared my thoughts on what a Libertarian economy might look like and I heard from a Skeptics regular "you have too much faith in the free market."

Despite meeting some genuinely cool people I didn't find it a positive experience overall and chose to stop attending.

Alan Chapman:

 

Phil Plait has stated on his blog that he is partial to some libertarian ideas.

Just don't consider touching that NASA funding or Plait will have quite the temper tantrum.

Coming from the perspective of someone who's profession is regularly pissed on by forums like these, I have not so fond opinions of skeptics.  Some skepticism is healthy but when you throw lots and lots of evidence at them and no one seems to listen or care, that can't be healthy.  Debating them on libertarian issues is very similar to debating them on a myriad of other issues.... they really don't like to have their positions challenged.

Curious,

what's your profession?

I am a Chiropractor. 

The preconceived visions that statement just brought to your minds eye is the reason I have pretty much given up discussing my profession online.  You can imagine what the skeptics do with it.  Say the word "Chiropractor" and all of a sudden your word is as good as shit and you are a snake oil salesman who cons old ladies out of their pensions.

All that said though, there is something truly unique and fresh about my profession.  Research has only recently started to catch up to the point it can be used in a debate.  The problem with skeptics (of course I'm generalizing here) is their minds tend to be concretely pessimistic and unwavering.  They hate for no other reason than to hate.