Freedomain Radio

What's so great about Ron Paul!? Of course he is the best alternative of many in the election, but he is still a statist and should be considered to be an opponent of us.

I think he is the worst enemy of freedom.

Nathan:

I think he is the worst enemy of freedom.

You may be right about that, Nathan. He sways people who are 'moderate' anarchists back into believing The State can work. 

bockman:

Nathan:

I think he is the worst enemy of freedom.

You may be right about that, Nathan. He sways people who are 'moderate' anarchists back into believing The State can work. 

It isn't just that, but anything he does to reduce the state results in a backlash that "proves" libertarianism (or freedom or the market) doesn't work.  Stef's latest podcast (867) on dismantling the state explains this and there is a premium podcast that goes into better detail on why. 

bockman:

Nathan:

I think he is the worst enemy of freedom.

You may be right about that, Nathan. He sways people who are 'moderate' anarchists back into believing The State can work. 

This has really started getting on my nerves. A lot of the proclaimed anarchists in the lewrockwell and mises institute crowd have somehow been persuaded that voting for a politician is a practical/efficient (let alone morally justifiable) means of reducing political power, and that to not vote for Ron Paul is "doing nothing". And if you call them out on it, you are attacked as "unrealistic" and assumed to think that violent revolution is the only alternative. Very troublesome. In fact, the majority of anarcho-capitalists that I engage with on myspace are voting for Ron Paul. It makes no sense to me at all.

It's how we get split up.

Agorism is starting to look more and more attractive to me in comparison to voting.

bockman:

Nathan:

I think he is the worst enemy of freedom.

You may be right about that, Nathan. He sways people who are 'moderate' anarchists back into believing The State can work. 

if they were that wishy washy they probably were not that much of an anarchist to begin with, so we're all better off if they're not associating themselves with anarchism, and go to calling themselves libertarians. But Personally I'm voting for him to add just the little bit of recognized public support to his cause: reducing the state. It's not important that he's not interested in getting rid of the state, just that there is someone there with a respectable dedication to keeping anti-statist rhetoric alive in public debate. It makes everything else easier when you don't have to explain theory from step 1. He's not going to win, so you don't have to worry about him actually being elected president. If I thought he was going to win, I'd not vote and stop handing out his fliers.

Can you tell me what you mean by "anti-statist rhetoric"?

Like, specifically, what are some examples of Ron Paul's rhetoric being anti-state, as opposed to simply anti-administration, or anti-policy?
 

Stefan Molyneux:

Can you tell me what you mean by "anti-statist rhetoric"?

 He advocates self-government over being dependant on a central state power. He's not just anti-administration, he's also come out against the IRS and CIA. Overall I was trying to stress that we need someone people are listening to who continually reminds people that less government is usually THE solution and not the problem.

Joel Davis:

Stefan Molyneux:

Can you tell me what you mean by "anti-statist rhetoric"?

 He advocates self-government over being dependant on a central state power. He's not just anti-administration, he's also come out against the IRS and CIA. Overall I was trying to stress that we need someone people are listening to who continually reminds people that less government is usually THE solution and not the problem.

Right but once that happens it is sabotaged by those who benefit financially from more government, the free market takes the blame every time.  "See? The free market doesn't work."  Besides, anyone who really takes charge and attempts to dismantle state agencies is going to get shot.  Just like a new mafia leader who begins dismantling their various rackets.

right which is why I don't expect him to be able to actually do much, I just want him infront of the cameras and microphones saying that the state doesn't have to be the solution to every problem, then it makes my job of asking "is the state an appropriate solution for ANY problem?" all the easier, meaning if I thought he was going to have enough support already to get that chance, I'd commit my resouces elsewhere.

Joel Davis:

Stefan Molyneux:

Can you tell me what you mean by "anti-statist rhetoric"?

He advocates self-government over being dependant on a central state power. He's not just anti-administration, he's also come out against the IRS and CIA. Overall I was trying to stress that we need someone people are listening to who continually reminds people that less government is usually THE solution and not the problem.

Is being "pro less rape" the same as being "anti-rape" - particularly when the "pro less rape" approach keeps resulting in more and more rape?

Is saying "slave owners have too much power" really being "anti-slavery"?

He's for "state's rights" as well, which is equivalent to saying "more power should devolve to the local slave-owner..."

What do you think?

Stefan Molyneux:

Is being "pro less rape" the same as being "anti-rape" - particularly when the "pro less rape" approach keeps resulting in more and more rape?

Is saying "slave owners have too much power" really being "anti-slavery"?

He's for "state's rights" as well, which is equivalent to saying "more power should devolve to the local slave-owner..."

What do you think?

Well maybe I'm a victim of my own rhetoric, what I meant was that it's important to have someone people are listening to, advocating the idea that the solution isn't always government intervention. It lassos in moderates who only watch major media and gives other the basic logic behind liberty-based order to the as-yet converted, sort of a "liberty primer" for the uninitiated...if that makes sense.