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Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

Keith — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:27:08 GMT

Anyways, I got wind of this one particular stage of MW2, where you play as a CIA operative, who has infiltrated the ranks of some terrorist cell, and have to get close with the leader by (this is the part where you play), going with him to an airport with machine guns in tow and literally mowing down a couple hundred innocent civilians.

I couldn't do it,in MW 2 at the airport in the single player...I took off my head set and let the AI move ahead,I also turned away so is not to watch...Found it very disturbing.

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

CaleyM — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:09:16 GMT

I've been playing FPS games for 10 years, since I was 16, but this is the first time I recall feeling ill watching a scene.

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

MvdW — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:47:42 GMT

normally i just lurk around but as a gamer i just had to place a post here.

i really don't get why people are so troubled by games. and the most funny thing is that the people who complain about games the most never play any games themselves.

since the age of 12 i was playing mature games where people (NPCs) exploded into pieces, and it was fun (first one was Unreal Tournament, great game)... by the way, a NPC is a non-player character, a A.I. controlled object... so i really don't get how people can get emotional about a string of 110010111010010010101011000101010001.

however Modern Warfare 2 is a better example how mindlessly people buy things only because of hype... the game really isn't up to standards with exception of the graphics. and don't get me started about the lack of dedicated servers on the PC!... and as far as the terrorist stage goes, it was really mild... and there was very little blood too... i really can't understand why this is such a problem for people (the only problem with the stage was the very low movement speed... like a snail).

if you really want to see a truly extreme game, than try postal 2 + Apocalypse Weekend expansion + AWP mod. this is the most extreme form of violence and gore i have ever seen in a FPS game... and it's just so extreme and insane that it becomes funny. and if anyone wants to see some of it i could record it xD. you just have to ask LOL.

the truth is that such games are only a problem to people who have a mental illness and have trouble distinguishing between a game and reality. this ability to distinguish is actually missing a bit in normal people who had little/none exposure to games. however someone like me who has been exposed a lot can distinguish at such level that almost nothing is too extreme in a game.

however if we change to a movie things work a lot different because movies look and sound so greatly more realistic than games, that people react completely different to it. and lets not forget the lack of interactivity and control compared to a game. even i react very differently to events in a movie that were the same as in a game.

people should look a bit deeper into it. and by that i also mean playing the games themselves.

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

Jorad — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:30:56 GMT

I just finished playing the campaign myself and I have to say: they couldn't have made a better ending to that particular mission.

SPOILER:

The terrorist leader knew you were an undercover agent the whole time and kills you and leaves your body at the scene while he flees. So the terrorist attack gets blamed on America and this triggers a war. I would have been more upset, if it really worked out to be "for the greater good".

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

memeverse — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:15:56 GMT

That Ars Technica quote gives me chills, though it isn't the first commentary of the scene to do that.

Flawed as the game as a whole might be in portraying the truth about who are the real good guys and bad guys I think it might have earned a place in entertainment history for this airport scene and the way it made people think. I agree at least the truth about what war is like can probably be gleaned from it.

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

djmattb241 — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:37:31 GMT

I think a certain amount of truth can still be gotten out of the game. Not so much truth about government, power, etc. But the horrors of war are apparently pretty accurately portrayed, and affected at least this reviewer from Ars Technica:

It's a violent, one-dimensional world where might makes right, and the atmosphere is oppressive. All of these design decisions work together to create a compelling, blood-soaked setting. The campaign moves along at a breathless pace, and by the time you've put the seven hours or so into the game that it takes to see the credits your ears will be ringing and your shoulder may feel a little bruised by the idea of all those virtual guns being fired relentlessly.

This isn't a game that glorifies violence—situations and characters such as this aren't attractive—it's a game that overloads you with it. You'll be asked to take part in some repugnant things, and many of the peripheral details will stick with you. You'll want to talk about the single-player campaign long after it's done, and it's clear that people are going to have strong opinions one way or the other.

How do we feel about the controversial segment where you become part of a terrorist act? It's hard to watch. The actual mission that has gained all this controversy is, in all honesty, pretty shocking stuff. The game slows down; you can't run. You have to walk slowly through the scene, watching innocents gunned down. They scream. They try to crawl away. They hold their wounds and moan. You can pull the trigger, or you can just watch. But you're holding a gun—you're a part of this. If you decide not to play this mission, you get a cut-scene. Why is this section of the game playable? What does it add? That's a huge question, with many different answers. I'm not saying the section makes the game better, but it certainly will get people talking. But, yes: it is just as bad as people are saying, and just as hard to take.

Am I glad I played the game? Yes. Can I see myself replaying it? Maybe not. It's satisfying to step into the shoes of people who are so uncompromising, and the game is brilliant at creating the feeling of moral vacuum, but it's not exactly a feeling that's comfortable, or even fun. During many scenes, I found myself simply emptying clips into houses, knowing there could be innocents inside. Why not? I was trying to survive, and in the thick of things it was hard to tell civilians from soldiers. Yes, it's just a game, and these are just pixels on a screen, but pixels and actions are enough to create a powerful emotional reaction.

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

memeverse — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:21:56 GMT

DaveDoggOwns:

Not only am I turned off by modern video gaming in general, I especially dislike these FPS games that try to model current events. I know it's a game, but because of my anarchism I know it doesn't make a difference whether you are a muslim terrorist or a soldier in the army. You are fighting using terrorism regardless.

One of my favorite games is an old game called "Syndicate". I love the game not just because of the gameplay, but because the developers of the game actually tell you the cold hard truth about the world we live in. You are essentially a member of a megacorporation(megamafia I should say) and each mission you throw 4 cybernetic slaves to do your bidding. You can brainwash civilians, you can shoot policemen, and you can fire opon other mafias. All with futuristic weapons and armor. This is the truth about the world we live in. Don't let "democracy" fool you. The people essentially beg to policians pre-selected by corporations. The truth is corporations run the world....and they have all the guns(the state).

So don't play bullshit games like MW2 that straight up lie to you. "They're terrorists. They're bad. You're a hero for fighting in the army". Play games that actually tell it like it is like Syndicate. War is just slaves creating new slaves.

True enough. I mostly just reviewed the specific controversial scene in MW2, but yes I'm aware the game echos the typical collectivist myths. That said, terrorists, as in real terrorists, do exist possibly even out of the circles of government and corporations and from the underground mafia. But they always existed and aren't such a new and threatening force as this "war on terror" would have them portrayed. And indeed, the government and corporate mafia probably outnumber them by a great margin. So I agree if you wanna experience something closer to the truth, including the entire context, MW2 probably isn't much of a good choice.

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

memeverse — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:16:34 GMT

Excultist:

Showing violence isn't always the same thing as actually promoting violence. Sometimes it can have just the opposite effect.

This is interactive though, asking the player to initiate the violence, not simply watch it from a non-involved perspective, which I agree can be a good thing. Eternal vigilance and all that...

Not saying I'm for or against it. This is definitely not like watching a movie that shows the horrors of violence though, it's different.

True, but then again despite being interactive it still is a form of art. It's just art that assumes quite a bit more about its viewer or "consumer" than movies do. It assumes participation and it of course assumes suspension of disbelief. I think that indignation would then depend quite a bit on how exactly does a person react to this. The fact that a game asks you to participate doesn't mean you can't deny or react to it in a different manner, consider it a sort of a personal test or so..

Also, it's exactly this expectation of participation that factors in to the realism. If you're just an observer you can't quite know what it's like to face the prospect of being the actor himself.

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

WonderWiz — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:47:56 GMT

I'm an RPG guy myself. I'm turned off by these violent humans vs. violent human games as well. Games killing aliens or zombies or anything subhuman, to save humans, I find I enjoy. In the right framing, I might enjoy a FPS if I could believe I was defeating an evil.

This might be an interesting topic for a podcast; you know, the psychology of violence worship through fiction.

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

DaveDoggOwns — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:07:56 GMT

Not only am I turned off by modern video gaming in general, I especially dislike these FPS games that try to model current events. I know it's a game, but because of my anarchism I know it doesn't make a difference whether you are a muslim terrorist or a soldier in the army. You are fighting using terrorism regardless.

One of my favorite games is an old game called "Syndicate". I love the game not just because of the gameplay, but because the developers of the game actually tell you the cold hard truth about the world we live in. You are essentially a member of a megacorporation(megamafia I should say) and each mission you throw 4 cybernetic slaves to do your bidding. You can brainwash civilians, you can shoot policemen, and you can fire opon other mafias. All with futuristic weapons and armor. This is the truth about the world we live in. Don't let "democracy" fool you. The people essentially beg to policians pre-selected by corporations. The truth is corporations run the world....and they have all the guns(the state).

So don't play bullshit games like MW2 that straight up lie to you. "They're terrorists. They're bad. You're a hero for fighting in the army". Play games that actually tell it like it is like Syndicate. War is just slaves creating new slaves.

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

OutSider — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:02:27 GMT

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

memeverse — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:04:41 GMT

I wrote about this today here: Modern Warfare 2 jolts the player awake with a question: what kind of a world is this?

I wouldn't necessarily say that the producers of this game were immoral to produce that scene nor that those who play this are immoral. It IS just a game. However there still is something to be said about the player depending on his reactions to this and about the producers in terms of the message they wanted to convey.

In some sense it's even a good thing, that scene. Violence is typically something we hear about in the news but pay little attention to. It's not a surprise that it's such a challenge for us here to get people to see "the gun in the room". Shocking people by having them experience nearly the full extent of what it's really like could jolt some of them into some pondering, which can't be a bad thing.

Showing violence isn't always the same thing as actually promoting violence. Sometimes it can have just the opposite effect.

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

unborncomet — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:44:24 GMT

Ok, now I’v watched some footage from the level and…. Wow… Holy-crap, that stuff is tough to watch.

From the games description of the main Antagonist:

This man, Macarow, is fighting his own war and he has no rules. No boundaries. He does not flinch at torture, human trafficking or genocide.

Ah, so he is pretty much your average politician then… It goes on:

He is not loyal to a flag or a country or any set of ideals. He trades blood for money.

No ideals and blood for money - got it! Again, just like your average parasite politician.
The main problem here then, seems to be the loyalty thing…

And than the whole airport massacre thing is justified by…. You guessed it… The greater good!

Re: Modern Warfare 2: Terrorist Stage

unborncomet — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:10:34 GMT

I had a real hard time already with CoD-MW(1) with the level when you shoot guys from a AC-130 gunship. That section was so realistic and listening to the gunship-crew's detached comments about me blowing "insurgents" into little pieces was realy uncomfortable.

MW (1) was probably the last military shooter game I will ever play. Even before I heard about the airport-level I knew I would not buy this game.

On the other hand it's interesting to see how people (game-bloggers etc.) freak-out about murder in a game "simulating" being a murderer.