Freedomain Radio

More specifically, is cheating ethical and okay if you are doing it in government schooling where it is compulsory schooling?

 

My argument is that it is ethical because I am not directly violating anyone else's rights to life, liberty, or property. No one is hurt if I am to cheat. The only thing that happens is that I do not learn information that I would have been forced to learn anyway. Another reason is that a test is nothing more than some pieces of paper with words on them. How can it hurt or violate UBP by knowing how to answer the words without prior knowledge?

 

Whats your take?

Well, the more I sat in that stupid classroom, realizing none of this stuff mattered, I would do it occasionally, but not very much. I dunno. It all matters how important it is to you to learn the material. Considering you are essentially coerced into staying there, its up to you how you convince your masters you are worthy to be free.

 

But is it immoral? Of course not. Lying isn't immoral either. Just sometimes cheating and lying can cause more problems than they solve.

I cheated copiously in my AP Chemistry class in high school. Man, I sucked at chemistry. I dunno why I took the class. I ended up getting a 2 on the AP test, so the joke's on me--a wasted year/class that I didn't have to take.

I think there are two counter arguments, though generally I agree with your position:

1. If you signed a non-cheating agreement, then you are effectively violating contract.

2. If you want to be accepted to another program and you think your grades might have an influence on the decision to accept you. Then, I think you are on shakey moral ground, because there is an implied contract (and often express, too, when you fill out the applications) that the information representing your experience and abilities is a true expression of your abilities. It makes sense that an applicant for to an intense chemistry program should be expected to have excelled in chemistry or somehow show some skill in that area. 

 

simonides:

 

1. If you signed a non-cheating agreement, then you are effectively violating contract.

 

 

Which isn't immoral, just not good to do for practical reasons (people wont want to contract with you if you gain such a reputation)

Hmmm...okay, I see. Violating contracts isn't necessarily immoral. Unless the violation involves force or fraud that damages the other party, right? Could you then argue that the so-called "educational institute" has been damaged because their cheating statistics go up (if they catch you), thereby putting off potential enrollees? I guess that would only apply to a private organization.

Only in a private organization yeah. And even then its not immoral, its up to the institution to decide how to deal with cheating. Honestly I think in a future system of all private schools, if cheating is a real problem that just means they aren't teaching correctly, because if they were teaching correctly kids would be interested and not feel the need to cheat.

Is it moral for a political prisoner to continue to build a case against the state?

What's the difference? 

One of my favorite arguments against the morality of cheating is that you are using another's intellectual product without their consent.  This argument wouldn't apply if you colluded with the person you are copying from.

Is the intent of cheating not to fraudulently represent yourself to colleges/employers?  While I'm not sure fraud is necessarily immoral, it certainly falls into the category of counterproductive towards most stated goals.

Ben19:

is cheating ethical and okay if you are doing it in government schooling where it is compulsory schooling?

As far as ethics, if you're in prison, it doesn't matter whether or not you help them to accurately test you on the subjects they've decided the prisoners will learn or else have their lives ruined. It doesn't even particularly matter whether you copy off of someone else to appease people threatening you with great harm to your current and future life. It's not your job to make a prison system work out for everyone who foolishly relies on its virtue.

There are pragmatic issues like risk and you not wanting to learn something not because it's useless or uninteresting but because it's being forced on you.

simonides:

 

I think there are two counter arguments, though generally I agree with your position:

1. If you signed a non-cheating agreement, then you are effectively violating contract.

2. If you want to be accepted to another program and you think your grades might have an influence on the decision to accept you. Then, I think you are on shakey moral ground, because there is an implied contract (and often express, too, when you fill out the applications) that the information representing your experience and abilities is a true expression of your abilities. It makes sense that an applicant for to an intense chemistry program should be expected to have excelled in chemistry or somehow show some skill in that area. 

 

 

1. If you were in a public school, chances are the non-cheating agreement would be a coercive one. I recall something similar to this growing up in which we were all assumed to have agreed to an "honor code" at school. If I am violently forced to attend, there is no way that this would constitute a valid agreement.

 

2. This can also depend. I don't really know of any application process where you are tested on the knowledge gained from high school courses (college may be different) compared to the baseline achievement of passing the class. This could also be true of college courses. I know several people who had to have a degree of any kind as a prerequisite to a job, regardless of whether or not it was in a relevant field or in Underwater Basket Weaving.

i think everyone else who responded has made good arguments to why you shouldn't fear that you are acting unethically. the word cheating to me always has a connotation to violating trust in a relationship, but what if that relationship isn't voluntary in the first place? more specifically, if you were in a relationship with a woman but she said you couldn't leave her or else she would fine you (steal from you) or put you in a detention facility, would it be "cheating" if you began a romatic relationship with someone else?