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Latest post Mon, Aug 30 2010 2:33 PM by gdw. 2 replies.
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  • Mon, Aug 30 2010 3:29 AM

    Parents that encouraged free thought and action

    How did I get here?

    Honestly, after watching the Bomb in the Brain episodes of Freedomain Radio, I feel the answer must be the subject.  My parents generally encouraged free thinking and critical thinking in my family.

    My ACE score is only 2, and not due to parents.  I was heavily bullied, which they don't have on the ACE score, but I say qualifies.  When you suffer sustained abuse at the hands of other kids on a weekly (or more frequently) basis for 6 years...that qualifies as an adverse childhood experience, or at least I say it did for me....

    Luckily, my family was generally free from such issues, and I gain the other ACE point for a suicide attempt in the family (not mine - I have never considered suicide).

    I learned critical thinking from my parents, mainly thanks to Dad, who had degrees in philosophy, business and law.  Both my parents always encouraged us to be whatever we wanted (well, mostly...they didn't like the idea of kids who smoked pot and had sex, but otherwise, they were open to our explorations). 

    The exception, I suppose, was being forced to attend church.  I would never have gone, were I given a choice, but then what kid does enjoy church?  I didn't know any, growing up.

    Other than that, they always said they'd be happy for me no matter what I did, as long as I was happy with my choices.  While I doubted that as a teen, I really don't anymore.  They were honestly telling me the truth.  I've made some choices I know Dad does not agree with, and he's always supported me lovingly because I was happy with my choices.  And he's kicked me in the pants on occasion when I wasn't happy with my choices (not literally...metaphorically and in a loving way).

    My political history goes like this:

    I was a Republican before I knew any better, and just trusted that my parents were wise enough that I ought vote the way they did.

    Then I became a Democrat, because Ronald Reagan massively expanded the government, the exact opposite of what he was allegedly supposed to do, and the exact opposite of what Dad had told me about wise government.  (Dad was and still is a proponent of small government, though he's mostly historically voted for Republicans.)

    Then I went to college, and became a Socialist, because...  [Going to make a bold accusation here.]  ...because higher education in the USA has become socialist indoctrination, and it worked on me.  I have no other explanation.  All I can say is that when we studied anarchism, we didn't read shit about Rothbard, but got plenty about the socialist anarchists.  When we studied third world literature, we got plenty from socialists, but not a peep out of anything libertarian.  When we studied economies, it was all about Keynesian ideas, and not a peep about Friedman.  And I suppose I fell into thinking that systems are the result of their intentions.  LOL 

    Now, of course, I am wise enough to realize how true the observation that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    Near the end of college, I considered myself Anarcho-syndicalist, which I'd more or less just picked up from Chomsky without really understanding any of the economics part, or how it might be implemented.

    After college, I got exposed to a number of things that exposed the true nature of socialism.  Mainly, through literature and exposure to ideas via Robert Anton Wilson.  That led me to explore the writings of Rothbard...the other side of anarchism, to which my college professors never thought to expose me.  But I wasn't ready to tip fully over into Anarchism yet, as I thought an interim stage would be needed to transition to a truly Anarchistic society.  I was of the belief that Minarchy must precede Anarchy...with Anarchy as the final condition of society.

    Now, I recognize the validity of arguments such as those made by Rothbard, Hoppe and our local hero, Stefan Molyneux.  The existence of any state, in and of itself, establishes a monopoly of violence and theft.  Because, as Einstein once observed, "No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."

    More recently, I have had an experience that I can only describe as one of transcendant emotion, in which I had an experience of truly loving all of humanity, even the evil parts.  It was quite profound for me, and life changing in the sense that I moved over from an advocate of the NAP to a totally non-violent pacifist.

    I'll add that when I say pacificism, I mean in the tradition of Gandhi: offering a ton of resistance, but none of it violent.

    "To want leaders and at the same time want to be free is to want the impossible. It's necessary to choose one or the other: to be free, entirely free, denying all authority, or to be slaves perpetuating the domination of many by one man." ~ Ricardo Flores Magon

  • Mon, Aug 30 2010 3:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Parents that encouraged free thought and action

    Oh, and one side note worth mention on the theme of my post....

    In high school, I was caught selling marijuana by my parents.  They found out my sister and I were using, and supplying to friends.  They sent us to a shrink, who evaluated us, and said essentially this to my parents, right in front of me:

    Your son and daughter appear to show a normal interest in exploration, but I see no evidence of unhealthy addiction here.

    My parents did not change their stance that pot was wrong, but they completely eased up on the whole situation, rather than making the home into a police state like many other parents might have.  During college, they actually let me get high in my room, but then reneged because of the scent drifting up the stairs...not because of it being wrong, at least.

    In my twenties, I became polyamorous (ethical non-monogamy), and later involved with Tantra (East Indian spiritual practices, sometimes involving sexual practices).  To this day I'm still quite outside the sexual norms of society...a poly tantrika freak to the core...and Dad's words are only supportive.  Far outside the box for a man who was born in 1939 and raised in the rural midwest by fairly conservative parents.

    "To want leaders and at the same time want to be free is to want the impossible. It's necessary to choose one or the other: to be free, entirely free, denying all authority, or to be slaves perpetuating the domination of many by one man." ~ Ricardo Flores Magon

  • Mon, Aug 30 2010 2:33 PM In reply to

    • gdw
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Mar 24 2010
    • Posts 685

    Re: Parents that encouraged free thought and action

    I have actually had some similar experiences, not to the same extent I would say, as far as actually engaging, but in the conclusions that I cam do as direct results of their teachings.

    My father is an atheist, and my mother catholic, which lead to an interesting upbringing.  My father was always pretty sceptical, at least when it came to supernatural/religious issues, but, like many sceptics, never really took it to the same level when it came to the state.  Also, he was never too vocal about it, which was interesting.  I guess he took more of a hands off approach to encouraging me to make my own decisions on these things.  So, not encouraging me to think one way or the other, but also not even being too vocal about encouraging me to question things.

    He did not hold back his own opinions, though never really pushed them.

    I almost wish he had been a bit more vocal about some of them, as it may have brought me to atheism sooner, though it may also have put me off.

    My mother also was quite encouraging (perhaps allowing of, as she also was never too vocal about it, just never discouraging) about having my own opinions.

    Any who, one of the major things I learnt from them was essentially that something was wrong when it hurt someone else.  This, I would say, was probably the main thought that lead to my understanding of ethics.  It is also what lead me to the two major contradicting conclusions relative to my parents thoughts, in spite of said conclusions being based on a principle they both advocated.

    So, my father is militantly against all forms of recreational substances.  This includes alcohol, and cigarettes, he thinks both should be illegal.  Now, I used to be the same, I never drank underage, but felt I should at least try it when of age before deciding if I would ever drink, and even avoided having friends that i knew smoked pot untill college, when I realized this was a near impossible goal, lol.

    So, of course, after college, I was becoming a bit more "liberal," in the traditional sense on my thoughts towards pot, and but still apprehensive about treating harder drugs the same, which changed when I realized that I simply was not applying the same critical thinking, and principles to them as I was everything else.  The same thought process lead to me realizing that I was so liberal for peoples rights with their own bodies, but still advocating health care and such, and I realized the contradiction of principles there too.  I supported freedom with your body, but was advocating denying that freedom with your money, which was also a direct result of what you did with your body.

    So, clearly it did not make sense to consider these things wrong as there was no harm being done to someone else.  Completely consistent with what my parents taught me.  This of course did NOT mean it was something I would advocate people choosing to do, just their right to do it.  The same way I advocated your right to hit yourself in the face, but would not advise you do it.

    This conclusion, obviously, is not something my father agrees with, and so, I recognize it as a conclusion he has come to based on personal feelings and biases rather than his own principles.  Though, I saw a shimmer of hope in his eyes when I brought up how there was much more danger around alcohol during prohibition than when it was/is legal.  At first he thought I was saying that there was more danger around alcohol back then than there is around drugs now, which he denied, but when I corrected him on what I meant, that I was comparing alcohol then and now (and even right after prohibition) I saw that glimmer of understanding.  I didn't push it, but the seed was planted.

    Any who, with my mother, the conflicting conclusion was on homosexuality.  I made an off hand comment, saying "not that there's anything wrong with it" when discussing a high school friend's "experimental" phase if you will.  This was a friend of mine that my mother always liked, and actually wanted me to date in high school.  She actually already learnt about her dating a girl, and never seemed to hold that against her, to my mom's credit in a small fashion, but her true thoughts on the issue came out after my off hand Sienfielding allusion.

    She responded "Excuse me?  Yes there is!"  This lead to a long heated discussion in which I argued that there was no harm in it, and she denied it had naything to do with religious influence.

    Again, given that I came to these conclusions based directly off what she taught me, I was flabbergasted.  My father's thoughts on drugs and such were a bit easier to understand given the far more popular negative opinion of them in general public, as well a his exposure to the worst of the worst with regards to drugs and booze given his work in corrections.  My mother, on the other hand, just seemed nuts, lol.  Especially as I knew she had gay friends.

    Any who, since then, my mother has become a bit more accepting on the issue.  She still has some personal "problems" with it, really just her being uncomfortable with it, and not processing that properly, and instead trying to make it an ethical issue, but she certainly seems a lot less hostile about it.

    Of course, before our discussion, I never saw that hostility either, so who knows.  Basically, it only manifests in that she expresses that she would not be comfortable with public displays of affection in her own home.  She loves Will and Grace, so she clearly can see it in general, but accepting it in her home, in front of her, she still is not dealing with.

    She is similarly uncomfortable with overt heterosexual displays in her house as well, though her tolerance level is greatly skewed.  Basically, she doesn't care for me making out with my wife at the dinner table, but kissing, and general affection is never complained about.  My mother and father are actually quite affectionate in front of others themselves.  She just clearly is not dealing with the "skin crawl" factor, if you will, with seeing same sex kissing etc.

    Any who, not trying to defend either of my parents views on the above, but rather trying to focus on the glimmers of hope they show.  It's like talking with minarchists.  They're walking in the right direction, but just not quite fast enough, or far enough.

     

    I think it is all very telling of how people in general are struggling with their own principles.  But it is also telling of how it is getting better with each generation.  It makes me often wonder, will there be anything that our children "accept" that we are still struggling with?  That is, what, headed forward, so not like our children holding onto statism, but is there anything left?  What will be the next generations gay marriage/legalize pot issue that we might take exception too?  Of course, I know it will not be the next "generation's" as the "generation" as a whole is not where many of us are in the liberty thinking.

    It's feels arrogant to say that we've gone all the way.  It feels like saying that we are the one's who have figured it all out, lol.  But there are definitely things that each generation seems to be more accepting of than the previous.  What IS there that my kids could be more accepting of that i am not?  Of course, I'd like to think that this could be confined to moral issues, but if that's the case, then anything I don;t agree with them on it will likely be something I consider immoral.  Bit of a self fulfilling prophecy.  Any who, what is there that my kids could be RIGHT about that I will take issue with, lol.

     

    Man has Evolved, god is Extinct.

    It's never lo late to change.

    "The notion of anarchy in politics is just as rational and positive as any other. It means that once industrial functions have taken over from political functions, then business transactions alone produce the social order."-Pierre-Joseph Prouphon, too bad he encouraged fiat currency.

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