Freedomain Radio

a63ntsm1th:

Why do low carb/high carb arguments seem to ignore types of carbohydrates.  I as I understand it, carbohydrates are what fuels our brains, and wherease the overconsumption of simple carbohydrates causes problems with blood sugar/insulin levels in the blood, complex carbohydrates deliver the fuel our brain needs at more regular and sustained levels.

It makes no sense to argue hi carb vs. low carb, as clearly there is an amount and type of carbohydrates which the human body needs to function correctly.  Therefore the discussion should center around what the ideal level is, and clearly diet recommendations which seek to eliminate carbs as much as possible cannot be healthy.

Am I wrong?

That is a good way to look at it, because "high" and  "low" are relative. 

carbs: I personally shoot for under 50grams of carbs per day, all of which come from fresh vegetable and the occasional berry (blue / black / raz/ straw) When i reach my ideal weight i'll raise my carbs to ~100.

Protien: I eat .7g-1g of protein per lb of lean body mass from grass fed beef / fish / pork, with some chicken.

FAT: The rest of my caloric intake comes from fat.

On another note, i went to the doctor on Tuesday, I've lost 45lbs now, he was shocked that i had lost so much weight so quickly, i told him i had changed my eating habits. After explaining my diet he just goes "yup, that'll do it!"

rpellow:

 

On another note, i went to the doctor on Tuesday, I've lost 45lbs now, he was shocked that i had lost so much weight so quickly, i told him i had changed my eating habits. After explaining my diet he just goes "yup, that'll do it!"

That's great news, I'm happy for you! If I'm going to eat carbs I tend to aim for Low GI foods or just aim for under 100g carbs per day, that has kept me at a weight I'm happy with (the lower end of my BMI range for my height)

a63ntsm1th:

Why do low carb/high carb arguments seem to ignore types of carbohydrates.  I as I understand it, carbohydrates are what fuels our brains, and wherease the overconsumption of simple carbohydrates causes problems with blood sugar/insulin levels in the blood, complex carbohydrates deliver the fuel our brain needs at more regular and sustained levels.

It makes no sense to argue hi carb vs. low carb, as clearly there is an amount and type of carbohydrates which the human body needs to function correctly.  Therefore the discussion should center around what the ideal level is, and clearly diet recommendations which seek to eliminate carbs as much as possible cannot be healthy.

Am I wrong?

You suggest that people cannot live on a no-carbohydrate diet, but several indigenous people do. The liver makes glucose, (the only carbohydrate the body uses), from protein. Hence, people can eat only fat and protein and be perfectly healthy.

^ that is true, the native Inuit almost never ate plant based foods and they were the only population who never developed medicine men.

My concern is the following: I have very thin bones, and acidosis from too much protein can impede calcium absorbtion, which means taking calcium will only end up giving me kidney stones. This is why I have reduced carbs in my diet and increased protein exponentially, but I am VERY skinny, and so setting my body to starve mode seems hardly the best idea...that's why i am not cutting all carbs altogether yet. I'd be interested in learning more about the diet's reported effect on skinny thin boned people.

ZebastianOrtis:

My concern is the following: I have very thin bones, and acidosis from too much protein can impede calcium absorbtion, which means taking calcium will only end up giving me kidney stones. This is why I have reduced carbs in my diet and increased protein exponentially, but I am VERY skinny, and so setting my body to starve mode seems hardly the best idea...that's why i am not cutting all carbs altogether yet. I'd be interested in learning more about the diet's reported effect on skinny thin boned people.

Yea if your skinny or athletic i would be around 100g a day.

I am curious though, what concerns me most is the wearing out of bones by acidosis. Are there any guidelines you can point me towards on that?

ZebastianOrtis:

I am curious though, what concerns me most is the wearing out of bones by acidosis. Are there any guidelines you can point me towards on that?

I haven't heard that eating a high fat diet leads to acidosis. This article doesn't mention food as a contributor to this issue, and the symptoms listed aren't reported in low carb discussions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidosis

Can you link a study or two which indicates that diet can lead to acidosis?

ZebastianOrtis:

I am curious though, what concerns me most is the wearing out of bones by acidosis. Are there any guidelines you can point me towards on that?

Perhaps you are confusing terms. Ketoacidosis is one thing, another thing is the normal production of ketone bodies in the absence of glucose.

I was told a couple times, once by a doctor that excessive amounts of protein(which I entirely need if I want to get to normal weight) can lower the absorbtion of calcium by the body and increase calcium sediment in the urine leading to kidney stones.

Excessive protein. I'm pretty sure that you can keep protein in the low-medium range on a high fat diet, but the low carbers here would know more about that than I.

http://www.fwhc.org/health/high-protein-diet.htm

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_%28nutrient%29#Excess_consumption


Many researchers think excessive intake of protein forces increased calcium excretion. If there is to be excessive intake of protein, it is thought that a regular intake of calcium would be able to stabilize, or even increase the uptake of calcium by the small intestine, which would be more beneficial in older women.

GREAT! yeah, I strain my bones enough with weights...I NEED it, I'm 6'1'' and weigh tops 150-160 pounds, which makes me about 50 pounds underweight. I guess I'll take a whole lot extra vitamin D and drink a lot of water(both parents had kidney stones) just in case.  That being said, this seems all very fine for developped country obese people who need to lose weight, but if I understand this correctly what this diet does is put you on starve mode, now I might be getting ahead of myself here, but I would have to eat plenty of fat in order to keep my energy up...my concern is, sometimes I go without a meal or I will not eat in a couple of hours and then have a big meal, but this doesn't sound that safe to do if you're on starve mode, the other thing I am most curious is whether ketolysis and glucolysis are mutually exclusive, can't I eat a lot, so much so that the carbs are by contrast not that much and get the same effect?
Also, what is meant by fat? I eat butter and a tablespoon of tahini but I guess my question is, if I eat no carbs, not that much fat, will just eating high amouns of protein cover energetic needs?
I do work out and have limited resources so I find that buying bacon which costs about the same price as what I pay for half a kilo to a kilo of tuna is just a waste.

If you are underweight, and not insulin resistant, then why would you want to avoid carbohydrates? It was a miracle solution for me, but if a carb-based diet is best for you then so be it. This one study I posted earlier, indicated that people who are insulin sensitive, seem to do better on a vegetarian diet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo

Go to minute 41.

But I disagree that ketosys is 'starvation mode'. Before agriculture, vegetation was always seasonal, especially in the northern latitudes when the ground was covered with snow. 'Starvation mode' is just a propoganda term which plays into the ideology of the vegetarians.

I was a vegan for a year and it seemed that in order to get enough protein(as in massive surplus for bodybuilding) I would also be consuming a lot of carbs nearly by default, getting almonds here is about 2 dollars to a hundred grams, so no.  Also after reading about lectins(eventhough I am not allergic to nuts, lactose, nor any vegetables thus far, as far as I know) it doesn't seem to make sense to me. Currently I am eating mostly protein, fish, eggs, chicken and beef in that order of quantity. Today I bought a can of tahini for twenty bucks and plan to eat 5 tablespoons a day. I plan to abandon most dairy save for butter. I probably have a 10-15% body fat ratio right now. I guess the idea of avoiding carbs has to do with insulin resistance, or the eventual possibility thereof. Otherwise I guess to have the highest muscle and lowest fat ratio as possible, stable at 200 pounds which is my goal weight.