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Latest post Fri, Jul 9 2010 8:05 AM by boona. 9 replies.
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  • Thu, Jun 10 2010 3:42 PM

    FDR Vids: The Death of the West Parts 1 and 2

    References:

    19th century living standards: http://www.cepr.org/meets/wkcn/1/1679/papers/Pamuk-van-Zanden-Chapter.pdf

    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/EDpublic.htm
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2248/is_135_34/ai_60302524/
    http://www.localhistories.org/education.html
    http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/PeaceToTheWorld.htm
    http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/rockoff.wwi

    http://www.criminalgovernment.com/docs/planks.html

    education 19th century:
    http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/educn/educn003.pdf
    http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/educational/watch/v14212188r4mnBsQ7

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  • Thu, Jun 10 2010 7:39 PM In reply to

    Re: FDR Vids: The Death of the West Parts 1 and 2

    Love this series so far.  It's really helping to bring together ALL the pieces of biology, religion, and the State for me.

  • Thu, Jun 10 2010 8:13 PM In reply to

    • KyleO
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Jul 8 2008
    • Gardena, California
    • Posts 136
    • Philosopher King

    Re: FDR Vids: The Death of the West Parts 1 and 2

    I love this series. Its very interesting and I wish I had been taught history like this. I can't wait for the next one and another other you might do on history.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

  • Fri, Jun 11 2010 12:52 AM In reply to

    Re: FDR Vids: The Death of the West Parts 1 and 2

    stef as a history teacher... that would be epic.

    "You can't force it down their throats".

    "You don't have to. You must only be paitent. Because on your side you have reason--oh, I know, it's something no one really wants to have on his side--and against you, you have just a vague, fat, blind inertia."

    Howark Roark, The Fountainhead

  • Fri, Jun 11 2010 7:24 AM In reply to

    • ash
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Aug 10 2007
    • Posts 1,831
    • Philosopher King

    Re: FDR Vids: The Death of the West Parts 1 and 2

    I really enjoyed these videos. Stef, your insight into history is terrific, I look forward to more.

    www.ThinkCritically.net - Critical Thinking Articles+Videos.

    Latest Articles/Videos: Truth and Acceptability and Soundness and Cogency (FDR Links) Try the questions!

  • Fri, Jun 11 2010 9:29 AM In reply to

    • gdw
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Mar 24 2010
    • Posts 685

    Re: FDR Vids: The Death of the West Parts 1 and 2

    I've been looking for stats on education in relation to the instiution of public education.  This is awesome.

     

    I hate when people argue that Canadian schools are some of the best in the world, and use that as an argument for public education, and against private.

    It's like me saying they should use a round circle based wheel, and they insist that the hexagon wheel they're using is better than all the countries using square wheels, so why should they abandon it.

    It's not that you can't achieve some progress with the state, it's that you can achieve so much more without it.  This combined with the TED talk video posted show's how much better things could be.

    Man has Evolved, god is Extinct.

    It's never lo late to change.

    "The notion of anarchy in politics is just as rational and positive as any other. It means that once industrial functions have taken over from political functions, then business transactions alone produce the social order."-Pierre-Joseph Prouphon, too bad he encouraged fiat currency.

  • Fri, Jun 11 2010 9:37 AM In reply to

    Re: FDR Vids: The Death of the West Parts 1 and 2

    gdw:

    It's like me saying they should use a round circle based wheel, and they insist that the hexagon wheel they're using is better than all the countries using square wheels, so why should they abandon it.

     

    Nice analogy Yes

  • Sat, Jun 12 2010 7:48 PM In reply to

    Re: FDR Vids: The Death of the West Parts 1 and 2

    So, you're telling me that the numbers of children that were completely uneducated were very very low. Yet the only argument that I hear from people in favor of the state provided education is that otherwise the poor kids would not be educated.

    The most "confusing" part of that equation is I bet you there are much higher numbers of kids who are completely uneducated, given the high rates of high school drop-outs and social promotion that graduates people even though they have not learned basic skills that school is supposed to teach.

     

    it's ridiculous...

    Check out my blog and occasional podcast on writing :) http://sticktowriting.blogspot.com/

    "a lot of people in this country feel like the US army is some place to go and make a man of yourself, I am less of a man today for having served in the US military." - Matthis Chiroux Afghanistan War Veteran

    “Good men don’t serve in the army.  Good iron doesn’t get turned into nails.”- Chinese saying

  • Sun, Jun 13 2010 3:07 PM In reply to

    Re: FDR Vids: The Death of the West Parts 1 and 2

    Great series, thank you very much Stef! 

    The history of education is in my opinion to a very large extent misunderstood and mistaught in this day and age. During the past three years I've been doing quite some research in this field, and I agree with the thesis of the series, that the root cause of WWI lies in the indoctrinatory system that is embedded in compulsory state schooling. There is indeed a seemless doctrinal evolution from the conception of the first public schools, all the way to the hypernationalistic rhetoric of Fichte, Hegel and Carlyle.  

    One of the most eloquent thinkers to write about public schooling was and is John Taylor Gatto. There is much truth in his "The Underground History of American Education". However, I do think his anglo-sakson background caused him to overlook a crucial development that took place in 18th century Prussia (now part of Germany). This historical episode is described in a brilliant and meticulously researched book by historian James Melton Van Horn entitled "Absolutism and the Eighteenth Century Origins of Compulsory Schooling". 

    Judging from this book and other sources, it seems to me that John Taylor Gatto's thesis, on the origins of public schooling as being rooted in the factories of the industrial revolution, is wrong. Instead, I think the evidence presented by Melton van Horn clearly shows how a group of radical neo-Lutherans (Pietists) in the 18th century have devised the system of schooling as a radically new invention that fitted seamlessly with their philosophy of the natural human state as utterly wretched and sinful. It baffled me to discover how many of these neo-Lutheran inventions still reign the classrooms: the constant supervision, the raising of hands, to even the clock in the classroom! (MVH indeed shows how these were explicitly devised by the priests of the time)

    For those interested in this most overlooked piece of history, I have a draft article that summarises the most important passages from Melton van Horn's book. I uploaded it here: 

    http://www.rothbard.be/downloads/historyofeducation.pdf

    As I said, it is still a draft, and it definately needs a rewrite.

    Just to give you an idea of how exactly the doctrines behind public schooling were devised, here are a few passages (footnotes excluded):

    The engorged original sin -doctrine and the whimsical God of the pietists deeply influenced their educational theory and practice. The following aspects can be considered as most important:

    Obedience

    Since, according to the Pietists, men by nature find delight in evil, they have to be seduced into obedience, so that not their own will, but the will of God (through the mouth of the pastor or teacher) can be instilled in them. With their antischolastic ideal of faithful obedience, the Pietists took Luther's creed sola fide one step further on the path of passive subordination; in Francke's schools, there was no doubt who was master and who was serf: the teacher stood in front of the class, and, a new pedagogical invention, the pupils had to raise their hands if they wanted to ask a question.

    The key technique in achieving obedience of the children, was described by francke described as follows: "When forming the character of a child, the will as well as reason plays a role ... Above all is it necessary to break the natural will of the child. While we should encourage the schoolmaster that tries to make the child more eloquent to bring the child to deeper insights, is that not enough. While he has then yet forgotten his most important task, namely that of making the will obedient."

    Vocation (Beruf)

    One of the ways of breaking the will of the child was to impose on it the role which destiny had chosen for it. You see the Pietists believed that the social order of the day (nobility, clergyus, burgertum and plebians), and the role of each group in it, was dictated by God. One who refused or to denounced his beruf did not fulfill his Godly duties. Francke described this as follows: "The body of Christ consists of different members. Not every member can be a hand, foot, eye or ear. Each member has its own task. . . . The foot should not desire to become an eye, nor the hand an ear."

    Hence, to learn the young to accept their social position, there was a Realschule (once more, a pietist invention) for vocational training, a Latin school for the more prosperous families, and an elite boarding school called Pädagogium, where children were being trained for the university or bureaucracy.  

    The worldly rulers of course loved the idea of a system where the wil of the child was broken, so that it could be molded into anything the state would need. They took over the school system of the pietists, by first subsidising it, later nationalising it, and finally amending until it met the needs of the state. The rhetoric of the intellectuals shifted accordingly:  

    Staatsfrömmigkeit 

    On November 7th, 1806, the Prussian army suffered a bloody and humiliating blow from the troops of Napoleon. Many intellectuals of the establishment were as shocked as the political elite was, and started calling for a new moral and political order that would build Germany into the great nation Prussia no longer was. Barely one year after the defeat in the Battle of Jena, and twenty-five years after Nietzsche declared that God was dead, philosopher Johann Gottlieb Fichte infused the Pietist educational model with a new ideal. In his "Reden an die Deutsche Nation", Fichte said:

    "By means of the new education, we want to mould the Germans into a corporate body which shall be stimulated and animated in all its individuals and members by the same interests."

    What had once been obedience to God was now gradually being replaced by obedience to the state, Staatsfrömmigkeit. Supported by Hegel's ideas on the development of the Geist, a rational spirit embodied by the corporate state, as being more 'real' than its separate parts and more important than the individual, Fichte's educational vision laid the basis for a lack of resistance against totalitarian regimes in the coming generations. The succes of Fichte's ideology is tragically illustrated by the conclusion French historian Stephane Adoin-Rouzeau reaches at the end of his study of soldier-published trench newspapers during World War I; that a profound sense of national feeling, “deeply rooted by their primary education” was the most important source of emotional sustenance for soldiers in combat. He states that "even in the war's worst moments, the impossibility [unthinkability] of causing the defeat of their own nation by collective weakness constituted a psychological barrier that nothing could overcome".

    International Reputation

    Throughout the late 18th and early 19th century, the Pietist school model of Prussia was studied and copied throughout the western world. It was for example Victor Cousin's report of education in Prussia that inspired the French Guizot Educational Law of 1833. Also, consider this quote of Horace Mann, one of the fathers of public schooling in the United States, in the influential "Seventh Annual Report as Secretary of the Board of Education in Massachussetts," published after an educational tour through the principal countries in Europe in the summer of 1843:

    "Among the nations of Europe, Prussia has long enjoyed the most distinguished reputation for the excellence of its schools. In reviews, in speeches, in tracts and even in graver works devoted to the causes of education, its schools have been exhibited as models for the imitation of the rest of Christendom"

    More than anything else, the study of the history of education has convinced me to never ever consider sending my child to a public school. I think that is its importance, it teaches the truth about how perverse our school system really is. 

  • Fri, Jul 9 2010 8:05 AM In reply to

    • boona
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 9 2010
    • Posts 1
    • Silver Donator

    Re: FDR Vids: The Death of the West Parts 1 and 2

    "$40 dollars per child for private education in 1999 dollars"

    Boona's Mind == Blown

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