Freedomain Radio

By the way.. if anyone agrees with the above ideas and likes the focus on a "pro" attitude with the terms "Voluntaryist" and "Voluntary Interaction" I propose two things.

1. Let's carve up the names and register a domain name for the new alliance. My proposals: "Voluntary Interaction Alliance", "Alliance for Voluntary Interaction" or just "Voluntaryist Alliance". Potential domain names (all checked for availability): voluntary-interaction.org and voluntaryist-alliance.org. I can register them and provide web hosting easily. Alternatively we could call it a "Voluntaryist Network" or "Voluntary Interaction Network" (voluntary-interaction.net).

2. Let's conceptualize the alliance more specifically. What will we do as part of it? What kinds of cooperative projects can we work on? What should the alliance web site contain? I would assume it's best purpose would be to aggregate all content, video, audio and articles from all voluntaryists who are members. One would only be eligible for membership if they can verify that they support and never advocate ANY form of coercion (thus being a true voluntaryist). Membership in the alliance shouldn't be a big chore though draining members energy, it would just be a way to connect

What do you think?

Btw, there is a type of anarchists who really are also incompatible with us, which are the anarchist under the mainstream TV definition of "anarchy", people who really just want violent chaos where in the process of protesting the state they also burn private property of other people and incite general rioting. Those certainly aren't the "anarchists" we ought to associate with.

I'm pretty sure those people aren't anarchists but angry youth with a taste for punk music, or cointelpro.

By the way.. if anyone agrees with the above ideas and likes the focus on a "pro" attitude with the terms "Voluntaryist" and "Voluntary Interaction" I propose two things.

I like the sound of voluntaryist-alliance.org. With an abbreviation like VA, the government might accidentally send us checks! But in all seriousness, I think that is a simple yet powerful title.

2. Let's conceptualize the alliance more specifically. What will we do as part of it? What kinds of cooperative projects can we work on? What should the alliance web site contain? I would assume it's best purpose would be to aggregate all content, video, audio and articles from all voluntaryists who are members. One would only be eligible for membership if they can verify that they support and never advocate ANY form of coercion (thus being a true voluntaryist). Membership in the alliance shouldn't be a big chore though draining members energy, it would just be a way to connect

I agree on the website, it will aggregate the content. There could be different levels of membership, such as content producer and subscriber. Membership could entail plastering the alliance's emblem on your site; participating in meetings, contests, gatherings, etc... Of course, everybodies level of participation in the alliance is voluntary.

Levels and an emblem sound like a good idea. Speaking of meetings, the idea is for the alliance to be more of an open ended forum without a council, commission or anything like that, that is, no real hierarchy. Meetings could simply members-only events that members can choose to participate in and which could be held in a forum at voluntaryist-alliance.org. If we have to decide on something like rules of conduct on the forum or anything like that any member could propose it in a forum thread, propose a date of the meeting, have the site administrator email all members and then anyone could choose to participate in a discussion or a voting.. Oh.. we could have a chat channel for those kinds of things.

In the beginning though the few "founding members" could draft up the rules, including the rules of membership. That can even happen right here. :)

Any other suggestions, ideas or opinions about this? Anyone interested in participating?

I've got contact with the Stimulator over at Submedia.tv, I'll see if he's interested.

If you wanted to get something going Memeverse, I have some ability in graphic design and programming. I also have a fair understanding of the Drupal content managment system.

Last time I was watching Submedia.tv I got the impression that the Stimulator is an anti-capitalist type of anarchist which would mean they don't believe in property rights (which could mean they may justify theft).. That's where there may be an issue when it comes to voluntaryism, because generally a voluntaryist starts with the self-ownership axiom and extends it to all fruits of self's labor. Someone who denies property rights thus effectively advocates some sort of coercion and therefore isn't a voluntaryist.

But anyway.. maybe I got him wrong. Feel free to correct me. I'm gonna watch there a bit (it's an entertaining show :) ) and try to decide for myself too. :) If he's a voluntaryist it'd be great to have him onboard.

About wanting to get something going.. yeah I did.. though I'm a little hesitant to go too fast too deep right now because of my current project (DoublePlusHuman) which I'm supposed to dedicate most my time to. Oh and all my sites are Drupal (except my blog which is Wordpress) and I also design them myself, but I don't have much programming skills, so that's great to hear. If I register the domain name I could install Drupal on there and then we could see how exactly to implement the necessary features, how it's gonna look etc.

I'm just a little surprised nobody else is expressing interest here... most of us here should be voluntaryists..

I'm under the impression that Stimulator is a mutualist. He tends to criticize those large corporations who can only operate with the guns of the government on their side; mountaintop removal for the extraction of coal is an action he stands against, but I'm sure he'd be against it no matter who was doing it. I think he's against corporatism, not the free market. But I could be wrong.

I'm just a little surprised nobody else is expressing interest here... most of us here should be voluntaryists..

If you build it, they will come.

I guess the safest way to know is ask him. Though the VA site should make the conditions of membership clear anyway.

I'll let you know when I register the domain and set up drupal.

Thanks

Ok, I've been thinking a bit. I still didn't register the domain name and I kinda like Voluntaryist Network slightly more than Voluntaryist Alliance in that this will likely be more of a networking of voluntaryists on the web and alliance might have some.. um.. political connotations among some people.. or maybe I'm just paranoid.

The only disadvantage is voluntaryist.net is taken which would be a really great domain for that, so it'd still have to be someting like voluntaryist-network.com.

Anyway, another thing I've been thinking of.. since my main project currently is DoublePlusHuman.com which is a site that will have articles and media (including original produced ads for various freedom related concepts) about self improvement, personal freedom and social change from a voluntaryist, individualist, atheist and humanist perspective, and this project is tied to my primary personal goal, I need some way of justifying spending additional time on Voluntaryist Alliance/Network.

So I thought I could make DoublePlusHuman.com an official sponsor of the alliance and advertised as such. I would be hosting everything and I can do the bulk of the work involving running the site etc. so I suppose it is justified. I just thought I'd run this with everyone interested here to see if anyone objects?

Regarding finances, it's probably best not to rush things so no paid memberships, donations or anything of that sort need to be dealt with, at least at first. In the future however, I think it's best to just eventually have pooling campaigns if members wanna join in any bigger and costlier projects. Pooling could even be done using an external service like Fundable which makes sure everything is fair and square.

What do you think?

I think we ought to avoid paid memberships, donation drives are a more volunteeristic approach to funding in my opinion. It might feel like a satellite of your website if the Voluntaryist Network contains ads, I believe we ought to avoid sponsership. You shouldn't have to put up the bulk of the funding or the time for this endeavor. I am very capable with servers, programming, and design; and I don't mind fronting some funds for start up. Before we begin let's try to get a working group together, we can delegate tasks and pool funds to get started. I appriciate your enthusiasm; I'm kind of a <cheesy metaphors> lone-wolf/leap before-I-look kind of guy myself, but let's get things boiling before we dump the macaroni in the pot.</cheesy metaphors>

Well looks like getting a working group together is gonna be difficult, at least starting here at FDR, given the amount of responses lately. You said "build it and they will come", but trying to have a working group first requires people to come in before we build it.

Pooling funds I still suggest to be done via fundable.

One advantage of doing projects as sponsored by someone is that it can get done faster because it doesn't necessarily count on "volunteering" of any kind at such early stages.

Oh and btw, I don't feel including anarcho-socialists under voluntaryists is a good idea anymore in any way... I'm having a debate with one so I've been giving it some thought and the stance against property rights is probably even worse than statism. Statists at least to some extent acknowledge self ownership and property rights as an extension of that and thus don't advocate theft on a regular basis among regular people like anarcho-socialists do. They're simply duped into believing *one particular organization* should do the stealing. Anarcho-socialists can coexist in voluntary society only so long as they compromise their view enough not to *steal* property from others in the process of pooling property into their own common pool to use among themselves. Otherwise they'll be quick to turn into common thugs who think are right to steal.

I agree that the response has not been too strong here, I'm going to post the idea on a few other boards. I've had a communication with the Stimulator over at Submedia and he's supportive of the project.

I don't agree with socialism myself, but I want to reiterate that a stateless society is the goal. I am not saying that we should align ourselves with statist-socialist or the like, but an anarcho-socialist is at least pushing the same basic ideals. I haven't really run across an anarcho-socialist however, the whole phrase seems  oxymoronic. Anarcho-capitalism feels the same way to others however. Is anarcho-capitalism really what we're pushing for? Market Anarchism is my preferred terminology.

When it comes down to it, anarchists are attempting to abolish hierarchy. The whole obsession with property rights is a diversion in my opinion, an insatiable need for the accumulation of material wealth does not correspond with humanism. Nor does a need to meticulously control all aspects of individual property.

How are we going to get anywhere if we can not cooperate with individuals with a slightly different preference in resource management? I understand that property is one of the core issues of our present situation, but violence is an even greater one. Why couldn't a debate exist within the network between the market anarchist and the anarcho-socialist?

The problem is that denial of property rights does lead to ideological justification of violence. If you believe in property and an anarcho-socialist does not he will feel right in stealing from you, albeit he wont call it stealing. This is the whole problem.

If this alliance is actually an anti-state alliance then I think I might have gotten the wrong impression of it. Voluntaryism isn't specifically anti-state. It is anti-coercion and state just happens to be the most prevalent form under which coercion is done. So being just anti-state and allying with people who are solely anti-state is not enough. The purpose of the alliance or network isn't to have debates within it on such fundamental and basic issues like property, but to push an already defined ideology which is voluntaryism. Only things we would discuss are promotional strategies. If however, one group pushes an anti-property message while another speaks the opposite, the alliance or network is a failure before it begun because it's not really an alliance if we couldn't agree on such basics.

So... I'm interested in a voluntaryist alliance or a voluntaryist network and I think anarcho-socialism is too problematic to be included in that. If it wont be specifically only voluntaryists then I really don't see the point of participating.

Denial of all property rights is such a painfully embarassing and contradictory position. Socialists blow my mind, they really do.

memeverse:

If this alliance is actually an anti-state alliance then I think I might have gotten the wrong impression of it. Voluntaryism isn't specifically anti-state. It is anti-coercion and state just happens to be the most prevalent form under which coercion is done. So being just anti-state and allying with people who are solely anti-state is not enough. The purpose of the alliance or network isn't to have debates within it on such fundamental and basic issues like property, but to push an already defined ideology which is voluntaryism. Only things we would discuss are promotional strategies. If however, one group pushes an anti-property message while another speaks the opposite, the alliance or network is a failure before it begun because it's not really an alliance if we couldn't agree on such basics.

Isn't what you're looking for, already right here?

• Philosophically consistent
• universally opposed to the initiation of violence
• universally committed to the protection of property 
• Oriented toward the individual, and self-empowerment
  
• promotes voluntary alternatives to coercively imposed institutions
• includes a vast network of intelligent, highly motivated, and genuinely curious people
• offers access to an educational resource the likes of which you'll not find anywhere else on the internet

With all this going for it, why start another one? What would be the 'selling point', or market differentiation?

Well the alliance/network would be like a meta-organization (not necessarily organization in an "official" or hierarchical sense) in which I assume FDR and people who participate here would play a significant role. At least one advantage I can think of, which is not an advantage against FDR or anyone in particular, but just a positive of having a meta-organization (like an umbrella) is that it is clean of any negative connotations and not represented by any single person or group in particular.

FDR isn't a meta organization. It's strongly connoted with Stefan Molyneux and the kind of contractual relationship between FDR members and Stef is much more specific as opposed to the one that would apply on VA/VN. So whatever someone may think, rightfully or wrongfully, about Stef rubs off on FDR as well. I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't represent the entirety of the voluntaryist movement, even though we may argue it should...

The role of the voluntaryist network would actually be quite minimal in a similar sense that the role of Voluntaryist Planet is minimal (and actually automated) - one place, one portal to all of the voluntaryist movement's content, discourse and activity. Like the voluntaryist homepage (better than the old voluntaryist.com). No material would be produced on behalf of the organization, it merely aggregates it. We wear its badge on our blogs and sites as means of identifying what we believe in and pointing people to a single place where they can have it clearly defined and then see what's going on in the movement.

Although honestly, I'm not in a hurry and I agree FDR plays a crucial role already, plus I already have an awesome project of my own.