Freedomain Radio

Maybe I've let doubt come where it doesn't belong, but I've got to tell you about the concerns I have in moving out. This might be slightly irrational, but I don't want my next step to be down a hole.

I'm stuck with this beastly family and I want to get out as soon as I can, however I can.

But where do I go from there?

Do I linger in a halfway house, looking for jobs?
Do I go to faraway school and raise my chances of getting a well-paying job? - Where is this school taking me? What do I want to be? How do I know I really want it?
If I want to go to school, how do I pay without relying on my parents?
If I don't go to school, what choices do I have? Do I have the skill for the jobs available?

I can do any of these things... But how do I go from deFOO to satisfying career and financial independence? I see many years ahead.

I started out asking myself: what is the cheapest place to live, hopefully near a beach? Florida, in a ghetto. Alright.
But then my dad told me that places with cheap rent are cheap, because there aren't many jobs available. ... That lowers my chance there. I need a job first.
If I go for a place with expensive rent and many jobs, I may look for a roommate. How do I know I can trust this roommate?
How do I coordinate finding a roommate with finding a job and an apartment?
How do I ensure my security and make the ends meet?
Once I've made ends meet as far as having a job and an apartment, how do I move forward?
How do I get from regular-job-person to professional -- such as in psychology?
I would need to go to school, and in order to go to school, either I ask my family for money or I ask the government for money, or both...because at that stage I'd have enough money only to feed myself.

Most regular jobs would let me make 8$ an hour, so I would make 320$ a week (every 5 days). That's about 1280$ per month.
Collegeboard.com gives low-income estimates of 15,000$ for average living costs. That's 1250$ a month.
That leaves me a net balance of 30$. Save this 30$ over a year, and each year I'll have saved 360$ a year. What do I do with this money? How can I go forward?
To always break even, I can go with the following rule. Never spend more than the following:
30% goes to housing. (384$)
10% goes to utilities and other housing. (128$)
15% goes to food. (192$)
10% goes to transportation. (128$)
5% goes to clothing. (64$)
5-10% goes to entertainment/other. (64-128$)
10% debts - e.g. student loans. (128$)
10% gets saved, 128$ per month. Save ~1536$ per year.

I don't see myself feeling happy about living just to survive for more than a few years. Eventually I hope to do something important, so that takes me to looking for a career.

This whole career-thing is something I've been stuck at for the longes time. Every time I look through career descriptions, my mind fogs over and I get really overwhelmed, and it's all so meaningless to me. I could like this job "X", this career. Or I could hate it. However can I figure it out? The best way is to try. How can I get a real taste of these careers?
I could spend my time figuring out what I want instead of paying the rent. Maybe there are programs that would allow me to see what "X" career is really like. Where do I find such programs?
That would be a great start, but in order to try such programs, I'd need money... Which will probably come from my parents' pockets or my own, if I got a job.

If I only knew what career I wanted...
I think I'd like to be a psychotherapist, though I don't know. If I commit to a career in psychology, I'd be in school for 8-10 years. If I began school at age 19, that means I'll be out at age 29 (worst case). ... Ten years of school. Holy moly.

How are you people doing, as far as careers and finances go? How did you get where you are? Do you "swimmers" have any advice for someone still standing on the beach and looking at the vast, powerful and overwhelming ocean?!

I'm posting this after going through yet another shitstorm from my mother about how I either need to leave, or I need to submit my will to her; and also after receiving news from the people offering me a place to stay that they've gone back on the offer, because it isn't a wise choice to let me in...one big concern being that there's always the possibility that I may not find a job and I could get stuck. I don't want to be anybody's burden (save maybe my parents) -- but especially not my own, of course, when I get out of this place.

I don't want to live in the same city I live in. I would love to live anywhere near the beach in USA, whatever I can afford. (I would go to Mexico, but it's not as safe or smart an idea.)

I'll take any offers for rooming with people here at FDR! That is, once I figure out how to get an apartment and a job. Of course, achieving that still doesn't address where to go with careers and life plans. My time is so precious to me, I want to spend it right. And, I've realized how hard it is to do this stuff alone.

Hajnal:

Most regular jobs would let me make 8$ an hour, so I would make 320$ a week (every 5 days). That's about 1280$ per month.

Sorry to burst your bubble: all this assumes the job will give you 40 hours a week (most minimum wage jobs you'll get will probably give you between 25 and 35) AND you didn't deduct taxes. I make between $600 and $1,000 per month at $8.25, with between 23 and 30 hrs per week.

Now, lets look at your other estimates

Hajnal:

30% goes to housing. (384$)
10% goes to utilities and other housing. (128$)
15% goes to food. (192$)
10% goes to transportation. (128$)
5% goes to clothing. (64$)
5-10% goes to entertainment/other. (64-128$)
10% debts - e.g. student loans. (128$)
10% gets saved, 128$ per month. Save ~1536$ per year.

Hopefully, utilities aren't going to cost that much. My roomate and I now pay, w/ govt. help, a combined $55 for electricity. Water is free at our apartment.
I'm sure that if you need to, you will be able to get your monthly food needs met for less than $192. That's actually a really, really large estimate.
If you have a car, your transportation estimate is probably about right, assuming you're paying less than $100 on insurance.
I haven't bought new clothing for months, lol.
I don't pay anything for entertainment. I check out books and use the internet. In June, I'm spending between $60 and $100 to go to a show in San Fran w/ some friends, though.

So, your monthly wages estimate was high, but so was your expenses estimate, so you may be able to save $128/mo, if you're frugal and thrifty.

I am really sorry to hear about this.

Money was certainly a factor to consider when Colleen and I deFOOed.  This podcast helped us sort out our ambivalence:

http://www.freedomainradio.com/Traffic_Jams/FDR_897_The_Economics_Of_Defooing.mp3

Please let me know if it helps you.

This is a really tough spot you're in, Hajnal. One that I sympathize with.

Have you thought about entering a trade? They pay shit at first, but after a couple years you can earn a decent wage and even make a career out of it. And if you decide to go school later on, then you have the skill and work experience to fall back on. 

As for the school idea, it sounds like you're unsure. Personally, I would be wary about commiting to 8-10 years without a burning, unquenchable desire. It'd be like marrying a girl you kinda sorta like. It might sound like a good idea now, but there's a good possibility of disaster.

Hey Haj, put me on your list for possible roommate.

I started out asking myself: what is the cheapest place to live, hopefully near a beach? Florida, in a ghetto. Alright.
But then my dad told me that places with cheap rent are cheap, because there aren't many jobs available. ... That lowers my chance there. I need a job first.

 Your best solution IMO is to live in your vehicle near a high wage area, or near the college of your choice.

Check out http://www.carliving.net/ for a book that was written by a guy who lived in a car for 10 years while attending college and doing other things. Yahoo probably still has groups called 'car-living' and 'van-dwellers' that you can join for free, which would enable you to read through their archives for practical living advice.

 Another option is to become a caretaker of a property. Check out this site: http://www.caretaker.org/

Brian

Ok a couple of suggestions that you may or may not find useful.  You say that you "don't see myself feeling happy about living just to survive for more than a few years".  Fair enough so I think you should find a job where you develop your saleable skills*.  You would therefore be living to increase your eventually prosperity and therefore happiness.  You should also think of the non-monetary things you could develop that you could not develop in your present situation. 

Secondly wrt. the situation with your mother I'd say you should try to find out if there is something she can do that will make her happy without you being miserable.  Sit her down and explain how badly you feel about the present situation.  Ask her if the situation makes here happy and if not what would.  What is it she really wnats?  Perhaps she does want you to move out.  Of course you're not guaranteed that she will answer you with integrity or self-knowledge but then you never are.  Give her the opportunity to negotiate for what she actually wants, to make a conscious decision on how to behave.  She may not take it but what have you got to lose? If nothing else you will have a clearer understand of her, the relationship and yourself.

A note on there being "no jobs" where the rent is cheap.  What this means is that you have to travel further from your job to your house.  This is not that expensive if you use public transport but it is time-consuming.  What can you do on public transport that would make the time not seem such an imposition?  Listen to podcasts?  Write something?  If the time on public transport is all used productively it's less of an effective expense.  Just a suggestion.

*  If you knew me you'd know that this is an example of me giving advice I should have taken.  It does run into the problem Stef mentioned of the credibility of people who don't follow their own advice.  Nevertheless I think it's good even if I'm too screwed up to take it.

Id go for it take my chances and roll with the punches the world throws at me, worst comes to worst you live in public housing or in a group home for awhile. If you think your strong enough then do it if not dont, you know wheather you are strong enough just lisen to you gut and try not to over anylize for a short time while you lisen to you gut feelings. You seem like a very smart and logical person, but somtimes you gut feelings can tell you more then you think

Neatoizer:

Id go for it take my chances and roll with the punches the world throws at me, worst comes to worst you live in public housing or in a group home for awhile. If you think your strong enough then do it if not dont, you know wheather you are strong enough just lisen to you gut and try not to over anylize for a short time while you lisen to you gut feelings. You seem like a very smart and logical person, but somtimes you gut feelings can tell you more then you think

I like how you look at things.

freedomfighter:

Hey Haj, put me on your list for possible roommate.

Thanks, added to the list! You can add me on Skype: eros.es.szabad

Brian:

I started out asking myself: what is the cheapest place to live, hopefully near a beach? Florida, in a ghetto. Alright.
But then my dad told me that places with cheap rent are cheap, because there aren't many jobs available. ... That lowers my chance there. I need a job first.

 Your best solution IMO is to live in your vehicle near a high wage area, or near the college of your choice.

Check out http://www.carliving.net/ for a book that was written by a guy who lived in a car for 10 years while attending college and doing other things. Yahoo probably still has groups called 'car-living' and 'van-dwellers' that you can join for free, which would enable you to read through their archives for practical living advice.

 Another option is to become a caretaker of a property. Check out this site: http://www.caretaker.org/

Brian

 

Oh wow, so it is possible. I will consider that if I ever get my own car.

Livemike:

Ok a couple of suggestions that you may or may not find useful.  You say that you "don't see myself feeling happy about living just to survive for more than a few years".  Fair enough so I think you should find a job where you develop your saleable skills*.  You would therefore be living to increase your eventually prosperity and therefore happiness.  You should also think of the non-monetary things you could develop that you could not develop in your present situation. 

I like that idea.

Livemike:

A note on there being "no jobs" where the rent is cheap.  What this means is that you have to travel further from your job to your house.  This is not that expensive if you use public transport but it is time-consuming.  What can you do on public transport that would make the time not seem such an imposition?  Listen to podcasts?  Write something?  If the time on public transport is all used productively it's less of an effective expense.  Just a suggestion.

Ahh. That's good, thanks for explaining that. My father was trying to discourage me, really. When I wrote this post, I was feeling quite helpless. I'm more resolved now.

Livemike:

*  If you knew me you'd know that this is an example of me giving advice I should have taken.  It does run into the problem Stef mentioned of the credibility of people who don't follow their own advice.  Nevertheless I think it's good even if I'm too screwed up to take it.

Thanks for your suggestions. :)

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