Freedomain Radio

Although I've been finding my therapy useful I've been feeling uneasy around certain topics around my family. Although she acknowledges my experience of them, she says that it doesn't make them bad people since other people probably have a different experience and they're only acting on what they know etc. I've concluded that my therapist must be a moral relativist.

So I'm not sure what to do, there's still a lot I can get out of it but I just don't feel secure when she doesn't acknowledge any right or wrong. Do you think this going to completely get in the way or is it no big thing?

I find your therapist's stance troubling.  You were raised by your parents your entire life, surely your experiences have far more weight and significance in an evaluation of your parents than nearly anyone else's.  It strikes me as very odd that she would counter your experiences with the notion that they're relative to you.  What therapeutic value does that have??

If I were in your shoes, I would ask your therapist directly if she's a moral relativist or not, citing this particular indicent.  The fact that you're not feeling secure with your therapist is definitely important and worth addressing.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I've actually brought up my uneasiness several times but she tends to jump to the reason that I'm like this because I was reject when I was honest in the past. This is quite irritating. I suggested reasons that it's because she justifies my parents actions but that didn't seem to go anywhere, i haven't used the word relativist yet though. This feels a lot worse to me now when I'm explaining it :(

I'm very sorry to hear that, but continued kudos to you for having the bravery and integrity to enter therapy, and to discuss these things with your therapist on multiple occasions.

Dan Holding:

Although she acknowledges my experience of them, she says that it doesn't make them bad people since other people probably have a different experience and they're only acting on what they know etc.

That quote left me feeling angry and not a little bit frightened. I'm not saying you should feel that way, but I am curious: How did you feel when she excused their abuse like that?

For a short period of time I had a therapist that completely rejected my mother and father's emotional abuse to me for most of my life, and he also tried to play how much they lied to me off as misjudgments, but not "wrong".

I talked with my mom about it and I promplty stoped going to him. She even agreed that she was completely wrong about what she did and over a period of time changed drastically indipendant of the therapist... who would've forced me into a repression of those emotions and, well, truths. The problem with your therapist taking this stance is that you're paying for, perhaps, bad advice. That's not just dangerous, but costly.

Dave Bockman:

That quote left me feeling angry and not a little bit frightened. I'm not saying you should feel that way, but I am curious: How did you feel when she excused their abuse like that?

It made me feel not much angry but uneasy and insecure. Maybe the anger will come later, it often does with me.

Koshka (Alex):

For a short period of time I had a therapist that completely rejected my mother and father's emotional abuse to me for most of my life, and he also tried to play how much they lied to me off as misjudgments, but not "wrong".

I talked with my mom about it and I promplty stoped going to him. She even agreed that she was completely wrong about what she did and over a period of time changed drastically indipendant of the therapist... who would've forced me into a repression of those emotions and, well, truths. The problem with your therapist taking this stance is that you're paying for, perhaps, bad advice. That's not just dangerous, but costly.

Yeah, thanks for the advice, I think you're probably right. I feel like I'm getting some useful stuff but at the same time I'm having to dodge this dangerous distorted stuff she's saying. I certainly shouldn't be paying for stuff like this.

At the risk of being excoriated for saying this...

Have you considered that maybe this is the only honest answer she can give?  She has no firsthand knowledge of these abuse experiences, either from their point of view or yours.  As a person who would otherwise be a stranger to you, she can only take your word for it.  She can't really KNOW. Just as I can't, even though for what it's worth, I believe you.

Dan, I don't know you at all.  I certainly do not wish you any ill will, or prolonging of your suffering.  I don't know anything about your history, and indeed, if you did go through years of abuse, I would not excuse their behavior.  All I can say is that a big take-away from my own therapy has been learning how to identify and eliminate cognitive distortions.  There are many of them, and they are very tricky and subtle.  Mind-reading is big on the list, and so easy to fall prey to.  The majority of anxiety and depression I used to feel was rooted in the insecurity that festered in my own cognitive distortions. 

Congratulations on working on yourself through this difficult subject.  Certainly you have the right (and perhaps obligation) to yourself to change therapists if you feel you've hit a dead end.  I just wanted to submit this as food for thought.  

Thanks for your advice Michael.

I've talked to a few people about this and I think the issue is not that my therapist has some abstract belief but is jumping to my parents point of view every time I go into my experience. This undermines what I'm saying and makes me feel rejected. Now it could be that I'm not always accurate in what I say about them but this is certainly not the time to build up empathy towards them.

Dan, have you expressed your concerns with her?

Michael:

Have you considered that maybe this is the only honest answer she can give?  She has no firsthand knowledge of these abuse experiences, either from their point of view or yours.  As a person who would otherwise be a stranger to you, she can only take your word for it.  She can't really KNOW.

I don't think that a good therapist's job is to remain skeptical concerning the factual validity of a person's childhood trauma-- it is a therapist's job to be an empathetic and caring witness to the emotions associated with and experienced by the patient concerning that trauma.

Michael:

Have you considered that maybe this is the only honest answer she can give?  ... She can't really KNOW.

...

Mind-reading is big on the list, and so easy to fall prey to.

If she was empirically skeptical, wouldn't she say she had no idea of their goodness or motives due to lack of evidence rather than painting them as good people with bad information based on a possible outcome reading their minds ?  She's saying that he's very probably wrong about his parents without providing him any evidence at all, which is very dismissive of his complaints.

Even though you had evidence in the original post that she's not skeptical or honest, you painted that picture of her based on a possible outcome of reading her mind.  That's very dismissive of his complaints about his therapist.

GregG:

Dan, have you expressed your concerns with her?

Yes, although I haven't given the reason it could be because i thought of it after the session. When I brought up that I felt awkward talking to her about my family there was no curiosity, she jumped straight to saying that it's because of my past experiences. I'm not sure how much is worth telling her now.

Dan Holding:

I've actually brought up my uneasiness several times but she tends to jump to the reason that I'm like this because I was reject when I was honest in the past. This is quite irritating.

I bet it is irritating! She's doing the same thing she's saying they did; "rejecting your feelings, when you're honest". It may in fact be the reason, but in just saying the reason instead of exploring your feelings, she is also rejecting your feelings... or at best explaining them away, which isn't helpful in the least.

Dan Holding:

GregG:

Dan, have you expressed your concerns with her?

Yes, although I haven't given the reason it could be because i thought of it after the session. When I brought up that I felt awkward talking to her about my family there was no curiosity, she jumped straight to saying that it's because of my past experiences. I'm not sure how much is worth telling her now.

Just a completely subjective theory: You knew how she would react and so you didn't bring up the reason.