Freedomain Radio

We all probably heard babies described as "miracles" for various reasons. Sometimes it's the wonder about how something so beautiful or cute could develop out of a single cell. Sometimes it's the joy they have the capacity to instill in those who play with them. Sometimes it's their seeming innocence.

But seriously, what's up with that? The word "miracle" to me implies something out of the ordinary, something inexplicable or even supernatural. I don't see anything quite so out of the ordinary, inexplicable nor supernatural about the biological process involved in having a baby. Sure it may be intriguing or "wonderful" (depending on who you ask), but so can be just about anything else in our universe. Besides, why wouldn't adults be considered even greater of a miracle? They're capable of so much more, independent, powerful... Perhaps because most of them are such corrupt self abusing bastards?

I believe that having kids is taken far too lightly in this age. Most people apparently don't actually know what true love is (mistaking affection for it) and just about all of them are perfectly capable of making loads of babies in their lifetime. As a result it's enough for two people to have enough affection and sexual desire for each other to decide on some sort of a commitment often involving having a baby. And sometimes this even happens by accident... which must be the ultimate of irresponsibility. And once they do have kids the culture they're cultivating is such that everyone is immediately expected to treat this birth as some sort of a sacred miracle and act all happy, cheesy and congratulatory around her, completely and utterly ignoring the cold hard fact that this mother is simply not prepared to be a good mother. She didn't even grow up herself and is now supposed to help a baby grow.

That's so maddening because I don't actually like kids and for this reason I almost feel (or did feel) somehow "wrong" about it. Culture would inflict this bullshit idea on me that kids are the greatest thing that could ever happen to a person and if you were to raise a red flag about that the response would probably be "but if we didn't have kids how would we procreate" or "saving the family line" or that sort of stuff. Yet last time I checked Earth's population growth has actually been accelerating for decades. And the fact that some people still worry about prolonging a family line only shows just how grown up much of the existing 6.7 billion individuals are.

I frankly believe that kids should be a precious rarity. Only persons who have absolutely grown to have full integrity and material capacity should begin thinking about kids, and only if they actually LIKE everything that comes with that. Kids aren't some sort of a predisposed requirement that comes from life. This capability to have kids is an optional facility of human creation reserved for the most virtuous of all people.

memeverse:

That's so maddening because I don't actually like kids and for this reason I almost feel (or did feel) somehow "wrong" about it.

Do you like yourself as a child? In other words, does your hostility towards children extend to yourself when you remember what you were like as a child?

Dave Bockman:

memeverse:

That's so maddening because I don't actually like kids and for this reason I almost feel (or did feel) somehow "wrong" about it.

Do you like yourself as a child? In other words, does your hostility towards children extend to yourself when you remember what you were like as a child?

I think not. But then again, I can't exactly say that if I were to travel back in time and look at myself from a third perspective that I wouldn't be annoyed. But that's almost a chicken-egg situation; a question of when does a child grow into a child-liking adult. Just because I was a kid once doesn't automatically mean that as an adult, at this point in time at least, I am supposed to like kids.

If it does then I guess I'm a bit pathological and have a problem. Otherwise it's a preference and the only way to act responsibly about it is to be honest about it and avoid interactions with kids, which unfortunately I can't do because I live with a sister who had an unplanned baby (and I actually got myself into the agreement to that effect by my own fault.. meh).

Thanks

I'm sorry you're currently stuck with your family.  You don't actually have to pretend they care about your sister.

Mr. C:

I'm sorry you're currently stuck with your family.  You don't actually have to pretend they care about your sister.

What do you mean?

I'm stuck with my sister mostly. Parents are divorced and both living separately, but mom still helps her financially and sometimes comes over and babysits and occasionally cooks something. She was fairly insistent on that she has to take care of her saying she can't just abandon. It was me who said that this is her own choice, not an absolute obligation especially since nobody but the sister and her former boyfriend (who fathered the baby and now has scarce contact with her) is responsible for the unplanned baby. She would probably still live with her if I wasn't "kind enough" to offer an alternative solution we're in now. So I shot myself in the foot by what seems like a personal value miscalculation.

Thanks

memeverse:

She was fairly insistent on that she has to take care of her saying she can't just abandon. ... She would probably still live with her if I wasn't "kind enough" to offer an alternative solution we're in now.

Well, it seems that your mother gets to be seen as caring without the work and you get the work while everyone (including you) thinks you don't really care.  That's quite a situation, but I'm not sure you engineered it.

I'm not sure.. that seems somewhat far fetched. She still helps financially, with babysitting etc. It's true though sometimes I get thoughts that I might be seen as cold or uncaring for not taking some of that up since I work at home so have flexible timing (I set those boundaries myself upfront, I wont babysit), but I'm convinced enough to not be bothered with that much.

Mother wasn't pushing me into this solution at all and was quite explicitly asking if I'm sure about it so I can't really fairly say that she engineered it. I could've also left her complaining to herself instead of trying to influence them with my individualist ideas that had her realize (the truth) that it's her life and her choices. If she stayed with my sister yet constantly complain about being wronged then it's obvious she would leave a part of her own life in someone elses hands while passively aggressively projecting that frustration into others.. I knew that on some level and basically wanted to free her.

But in the process I seemed to have made a mistake of my own. I replaced her role and escalated my feeling of annoyances and desire for more peace and solitude. I'm just trying to figure out why exactly am I so easily annoyed. It's still possible that it's an issue not entirely dependent on this situation in which case a solution could be "easier" than trying to modify this agreement.. I gave it some thought and annoyances are usually present when the thing that annoys me isn't in my focus, but instead distracts me from what is. For instance, if I play with the baby I'm ok (unless he's screaming so loud my eardrums wanna pop). But if I'm in my room focusing on something else (which is the stuff I want to spend most of my time on).. and then hear him next door screaming.. I'm incredibly distracted and annoyed and wish I was somewhere far away. It is then that I usually think I'm in the wrong place and a bad arrangement and wish I have made a different choice.

The issue would be somewhat less significant if the apartment we are in was set up differently. Audio isolation is terrible.

Anyway, this almost seems a little offtopic.. except that this situation obviously inspired the thinking that led to my thoughts about people having babies and calling them miracles..

memeverse:

Mother wasn't pushing me into this solution at all

Ahh, I see from what you're saying that they're respectful of your desires and boundaries.  They sound like they'll be open to working with you when you say that this is more of an imposition than you thought it would be at first, that you've made an error and are having second thoughts, and that you'd like their help in changing the situation.

Right, that would probably be the most sensible thing.

I just remembered one interesting bit from childhood. My mom sometimes said that if I was so easily annoyed and frustrated then how will I be when I grow up. Well, here I am.. :D I'm actually far better than I may have feared I would turn out to be when she said that. I don't have frequent outbursts of anger. My frustrations are usually quietly kept inside and mulled over (like right now) until I have something meaningful to say about them. I think it may be a good idea to ask my mother about that time when she told me I was too easy to annoy and why she said that. I'm having trouble remembering details from my childhood on my own (and they *might* hold some useful information..).

Thanks

No problem.  Let us know how it goes.

I talked to her and she said that I was always very sensitive to sounds and easily irritated by what seemed like trivial things, though she understood and accepted my explanation that since their level of experience is much lower, what may seem trivial to adults can be very real for kids. When I asked for clues as to what could have caused me to become so easily annoyed or sensitive she couldn't quite answer. We went as far back as we could, like 3 years old, but didn't quite cover the earlier time for which she only said that I was treated very well by everyone since I was a baby etc... so probably assuming that nothing significant may have occurred as a distinct cause of this irritability or sensitivity.

So of course there are only two options. Either something did happen which triggered my irritability but neither of us can remember (or buried the memory of it) or nothing really happened and this issue of mine could be attributed to some sort of a genetic source in which case it's just the way I'm built (extremely introverted, sensitive, emphatic and by extension irritable).

What's interesting (and in some sense even funny) is some of the things that triggered fear, anxiety or irritation in me. At about 3 years the sight of a rather artistic looking lightbulb luster causing shadows across the room triggered fear and nightmares. I also experienced fear at the sight of a smoke pipe of a wood powered heater. I was extremely (like screaming) afraid of the sounds of airplanes flying above, lightning storm sounds etc.

Then later in childhood I was consistently easily annoyed and consequently hard to concentrate, liking isolation and quiet, my own little space. All noise from elsewhere that seemed distracting or irritating I easily detected where others apparently wouldn't and caused feeling of annoyance. So yeah, this appears to be a very consistently recurring theme throughout my life that keeps persisting. How am I to figure out the cause or the solution to this? Is a solution even necessary or possible or am I simply to accommodate this need as my natural trait, adjusting my life accordingly?

Thanks

"But seriously, what's up with that? The word "miracle" to me implies something out of the ordinary, something inexplicable or even supernatural. I don't see anything quite so out of the ordinary, inexplicable nor supernatural about the biological process involved in having a baby."

I agree completely. Although, it must be a wonderful heart-warming experiance to be a parent, again, it's a natural process that our bodies were made to do. The majority of the population are completely capable of having children, so I see no miracle. Think of how common it is to have children! how many are born every single second! It's not a miracle, merely a life-altering experiance and perhaps a wonderful one for the individuals involved. A miracle, to me, is someone surviving a medical issue that gave them a .5% percent chance of living. Something more of that nature. Not, if not the most common, one of the most common biological processes.

Teeheee, I knew when you read "baby" on a post you jumped on it! XD

Koshka (Alex):

Teeheee, I knew when you read "baby" on a post you jumped on it! XD

 

 

....<<;;

Yeah, classic Sophie. Sees a baby, steals it. You know how I am. XD

From what I've found, when people tend to use mystical words to refer to babies, they're actually co-opting that quality so as to make themselves seem infallible. I'm sure anyone who's dared to correct someone on their poor parenting has been faced with this kind of attitude.

So I guess it only makes sense that parents tend to view their children as property rather than autonomous equals, since the "miracle" of child birth follows the same lineage of absurdities that nationalism, religion, and traditional family values do. This contrasts with the grounded approach of balancing one's appreciation of how awe-inspiring child-birth can be with the humility of not being perfect and all-knowing.