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Latest post Thu, Jul 20 2006 9:27 AM by Tuttle. 15 replies.
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  • Wed, Jul 19 2006 2:12 PM In reply to

    • Nathan
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Mar 23 2006
    • Philadelphia, PA
    • Posts 13,120
    • Philosopher King

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

     Nielsio wrote:
    It would also be nice if you could offer any rational argument for why its a problem to believe something on little evidence.


    So if I tell you that on the other side of the world is a pot of gold for you to have and show you a picture of it, you would go?

    What if I told you that the pot has an infinite amount of gold and it could never get empty? What if I told you it contains a magic genie that would be only visible to you and it would grant all your wishes? Would you go?


    No, but why would it be a problem if I did?


    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=6599652


    I deal with this person every day.  This person is my girlfriend.  These people love the whole Cartesean demon idea and always try and question and downgrade your ability to sense reality and insist that you question your sanity. Listen to the "Radical Skepticism" podcast.  Not sure what number but I think its in the low 200's.
  • Wed, Jul 19 2006 2:16 PM In reply to

    • GregG
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    • Joined on Tue, Feb 21 2006
    • Brooklyn, NY
    • Posts 14,288
    • Philosopher King

    Tongue Tied [:S] Re: How do these people not fall over more??

    Of course, I couldn't agree with you more. However, you're never going to convince those folks, because you are beginning from a fundamentally different set of presuppositions about knowledge and reason, than the theist. He will never give up the notion that he can 'know' things that are undetectable to the senses, and that syllogistic logic alone is enough to 'prove' that he knows it.

    Of course, we see this as utterly irrational, because we argue that the mind can know nothing other than what arises from concept formation derived from sensual data - and that syllogistic reasoning does not trump material reality.

    However, the theist will argue that to claim knowledge of the unknowable (in the positive assertion that it does not exist) is irrational precisely because it is unknowable, and therefore, it is the scientist who is making the unfounded assertion. To which, the scientist can easily argue that the theist has undermined his own argument by describing what he claims to be 'non-sensual reality', as unknowable, he has conceded that he does not know either.

    At which point, the two are locked in the horns of an agnostic dillema, and so on, and so on, and so on, ad-Plantinga-infinitum....

    Not that I'm trying to mock YOU, Niels. I mock the whole process. At some point you just have to throw your hands up and say: I'm not going to waste my life anymore...

     

  • Wed, Jul 19 2006 2:22 PM In reply to

    • Nathan
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Mar 23 2006
    • Philadelphia, PA
    • Posts 13,120
    • Philosopher King

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

     gmgauthi wrote:

    However, the theist will argue that to claim knowledge of the unknowable (in the positive assertion that it does not exist) is irrational precisely because it is unknowable, and therefore, it is the scientist who is making the unfounded assertion. To which, the scientist can easily argue that the theist has undermined his own argument by describing what he claims to be 'non-sensual reality', as unknowable, he has conceded that he does not know either.

    At which point, the two are locked in the horns of an agnostic dillema, and so on, and so on, and so on, ad-Plantinga-infinitum....


    Been there, done that.  But how can you KNOW "God" doesn't exist?  To claim to KNOW this is arrogant.  To claim that you KNOW boron exists is ARROGANT, yet they fail to see that claiming that "God" exists is what is arrogant. This kind of reminds me of the Sniping at God podcast too.  Its irritating and it does nothing but make me upset and angry and why? This person is questioning my sanity and calling me arrogant and verbally abusing me for relying on my senses more than ideas of fantasy.
  • Wed, Jul 19 2006 2:29 PM In reply to

    • GregG
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Feb 21 2006
    • Brooklyn, NY
    • Posts 14,288
    • Philosopher King

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

     Sephethus wrote:
    Been there, done that.  But how can you KNOW "God" doesn't exist?  To claim to KNOW this is arrogant.  To claim that you KNOW boron exists is ARROGANT, yet they fail to see that claiming that "God" exists is what is arrogant. This kind of reminds me of the Sniping at God podcast too.  Its irritating and it does nothing but make me upset and angry and why? This person is questioning my sanity and calling me arrogant and verbally abusing me for relying on my senses more than ideas of fantasy.
    Just embrace it Nathan, you're arrogant and insane! Join the rest of us arrogant, 'belligerent', insane, 'lunatic-fringe' wing-nuts, as we skip off into the sunset, happy as clams!!  Weee!!!

     

     

  • Wed, Jul 19 2006 10:23 PM In reply to

    • x86zero
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Mar 26 2006
    • Illinois
    • Posts 50

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

    "You seem quite knowledgable in this "no knowledge" field. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter."
    "Guns don't kill people. The government does!"
  • Wed, Jul 19 2006 10:36 PM In reply to

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

     gmgauthi wrote:

     Sephethus wrote:
    Been there, done that.  But how can you KNOW "God" doesn't exist?  To claim to KNOW this is arrogant.  To claim that you KNOW boron exists is ARROGANT, yet they fail to see that claiming that "God" exists is what is arrogant. This kind of reminds me of the Sniping at God podcast too.  Its irritating and it does nothing but make me upset and angry and why? This person is questioning my sanity and calling me arrogant and verbally abusing me for relying on my senses more than ideas of fantasy.
    Just embrace it Nathan, you're arrogant and insane! Join the rest of us arrogant, 'belligerent', insane, 'lunatic-fringe' wing-nuts, as we skip off into the sunset, happy as clams!!  Weee!!!

    I'm just picturing your 'bear' avatar doing that, in slow mo - woooow

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  • Wed, Jul 19 2006 11:11 PM In reply to

    • GregG
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Feb 21 2006
    • Brooklyn, NY
    • Posts 14,288
    • Philosopher King

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

    Like a scene from a Disney cartoon.... Big Smile [:D]
  • Thu, Jul 20 2006 6:17 AM In reply to

    • Ned
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Feb 22 2006
    • Chicago
    • Posts 2,873

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

     x86zero wrote:
    "You seem quite knowledgable in this "no knowledge" field. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter."


    haha, i like it.

    The FDR Blogosphere at your fingertips! FDRBLOGS.nedsferatu.com

    ned icon Edmund aka Ned aka nedsferatu

  • Thu, Jul 20 2006 8:25 AM In reply to

    • Ned
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Feb 22 2006
    • Chicago
    • Posts 2,873

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

    firefoxes?

    The FDR Blogosphere at your fingertips! FDRBLOGS.nedsferatu.com

    ned icon Edmund aka Ned aka nedsferatu

  • Thu, Jul 20 2006 8:28 AM In reply to

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

    fire foxes?

    for sexual harrassment it would appear

    (yes i will go that low)

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  • Thu, Jul 20 2006 8:30 AM In reply to

    • Ned
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Feb 22 2006
    • Chicago
    • Posts 2,873

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

    i always her ass was two words

    see, it is like joke limbo...can you go lower, huh! huh!

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  • Thu, Jul 20 2006 8:37 AM In reply to

    • Tuttle
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Apr 4 2006
    • London, England
    • Posts 2,066
    • Philosopher King

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

    Its nice to see that there is such strong competition as to who can have the most spectacularly unproductive day at work. Though I was a clear winner but noooo, the the field is crowded!
  • Thu, Jul 20 2006 9:06 AM In reply to

    Re: How do these people not fall over more??

    Oh, it's productive, baby! Just not for my employer! Big Smile [:D]

    We'll start a commune when we all get canned!

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