Freedomain Radio

I was just listening to the recent video on property rights, and got to the point where Stef is explaining the contradiction of "consistently" applying a "principle of inconsistency", and the thought occured to me, "How would I know?"

And then it hit me: That's Agnosticism!

Nihilism, Radical Skepticism, and Agnosticism are like a three-legged altar of exaltation of the impossible - the worship of contradiction for its own sake: as a virtue. Even religion and statism don't make it that far - both treat contradiction as a necessary evil required to make possible the belief in demons and riteous rulers.

Nihilism and Radical Skepticism are often compared to an acid bath. Well, I think that would make Agnosticism the smog that rises from the reaction, and what we don't see because of it, is the bare naked contradiction left behind after the trappings and ceremonies of statism and religion have melted away.

But it's not nothing that's left behind. It's contradiction itself - as a floating abstraction - that becomes the new god.

GregG:

But it's not nothing that's left behind. It's contradiction itself - as a floating abstraction - that becomes the new god.

I don't really see agnosticism as the great evil that it seems most folks here do.  Generally, the agnostics I know are only really agnostic because of their perhaps too deeply ingrained adherence to principles, i.e. the logical principle that you can't prove a negative.  They just won't take that leap of faith and declare themselves strong atheists, but they'll all tell you (in my experience) that they're strong atheists with regard to all of the man-made personal gods at least.  That should make them brothers in arms here.  One doesn't need to hold any of these strawman views about parallel universes where square circles exist and all that nonsense that Stef is always tilting at.  I really fail to see where agnosticism has anything to do with contradictions at all.

My girlfriend is an agnostic and I really don't see any problems with it.  She also acknowledges that certain definitions of god can be disproved through logic (square circles etc...).

Back to the topic:

This is a pretty fascinating idea Greg.

We're raised by parents whose actions wildly contradict their words and are commanded to respect and honor them.  Parents are like gods to children.

I think these are some fascinating observations.  I think your metaphor of the acid bath of nihilism and radical skepticism + the fog of agnosticism is wonderful; it often does seem as though they are three forms of the same substance.

In this sense, agnosticism is even more harmful to rationality than religion is; religion doesn't pretend to be scientific – "that's why it's called faith." "just believe."  etc.

Agnostics, more often than not, argue science and reason as the foundation for their beliefs...as though it would be unscientific and childish to make such an absolute claim about God's existence, "because we don't know everything." – all the while making a total mockery of reason and evidence.

Great, stimulating post, Greg.

Greg Minton:

Agnostics, more often than not, argue science and reason as the foundation for their beliefs...as though it would be unscientific and childish to make such an absolute claim about God's existence, "because we don't know everything." – all the while making a total mockery of reason and evidence.

Right, "we don't know everything therefore we know nothing."

Besides "We dont know everything" being a knowledge statement =/

Greg Minton:

In this sense, agnosticism is even more harmful to rationality than religion is; religion doesn't pretend to be scientific – "that's why it's called faith." "just believe."  etc.

Are you serious?  I've never heard an agnostic claim science as their basis. Moreover religion constantly claims science as it's basis.  I find this slightly offensive and I'm not even an agnostic.

Greg Minton:

Agnostics, more often than not, argue science and reason as the foundation for their beliefs...as though it would be unscientific and childish to make such an absolute claim about God's existence, "because we don't know everything." – all the while making a total mockery of reason and evidence.

Great, stimulating post, Greg.

Again, I don't know any agnostics like this.  I know agnostics that FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE that some definitions of god are falsifiable through the scientific method and are as likely to exist as a square circle.

Nojus Arturas Namajunas:

I know agnostics that FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE that some definitions of god are falsifiable through the scientific method and are as likely to exist as a square circle.

Would you mind asking those agnostic friends which definitions of god are not falsifiable through the scientific method?

Nojus, whether your right or wrong, pay mind to the emotions you are experiencing from this thread... be sure to figure out exactly where they are coming from.

My favorite quote from an agnostic (which I heard in a podcast though not sure which one)

" normally you would be right, but this is where logic breaks down."

Nathan:

We're raised by parents whose actions wildly contradict their words and are commanded to respect and honor them.  Parents are like gods to children.

Dave Bockman:

Would you mind asking those agnostic friends which definitions of god are not falsifiable through the scientific method?

The core of logic and reason is not observation? 

Dave Bockman:

 

Would you mind asking those agnostic friends which definitions of god are not falsifiable through the scientific method?

Maybe a deistic god? I don't know, I'm not an agnostic.

RickyCisco:

Nojus, whether your right or wrong, pay mind to the emotions you are experiencing from this thread... be sure to figure out exactly where they are coming from.

To be honest, it feels the same as when my step-dad tries to inform my sister on something he knows nothing about and she just accepts it without question.