Freedomain Radio

Today I spent a good long while with my mother, while volunteering for a cause that she has a great deal of investment and conviction, and counted as community service hours for myself so I can graduate come december. It was actually a really nice day, and I felt to me it was beneficial when I happened upon a little girl that reminded me so much of myself when I was a little girl.. As we chatted, I realized how impressionable she was, how lonely she was, and a bit of curiosity when she didn't find the activities the other children were doing very entertaining. For starters, there was a very broad spectrum of activies from Karate, Basketball, and Cheerleading(Which made ME cringe, ewe.), and after having my little chat with her there was an arts and crafts project. She seemed shy, but in all honesty I believe she was not really interested in what was going on.. and after sitting on the ground with her and playing in the dirt with her (which is where I found her, and I used to do the very same thing!) she opened up to me and actually looked me in the eyes and smiled. As it turns out, she likes to dance, and she likes to make up her own moves. However, she didn't like what they were doing. So instead of partaking in those activities, she took it upon herself to find something she enjoyed. Unfortunately, it was alone in the grass, where all of the other volunteers happened upon her saying who knows what, but walking away with a, "I just don't know" shrug and carrying on. She also let me in on how she likes to draw, and paint, and make things. I asked her what kinds of things, and her response just made me smile so big. She said, "ALL KINDS OF THINGS!" with so much pride, so much personality, and it was as though someone had opened the door to her world, and now she felt good. We continued to talk, and she talked more during that span of time we were together, than she had the entire time she was there. Wow, to children. They are just so full of this energy, and desire, and wonderlust for the world, and how sad it made me feel to think about when she leaves, what next? She felt alone for a reason.. I only hope she can take what I told her and remember it. I would hate for her to feel the way I felt coming up.. but talking with her, someone who is not built to attack me, who hasn't the capacity to gain benefit from doing such, was quite therapeutic. And I genuinely felt good reaching her level. She will be something fabulous, under the correct conditions. Oh, I so hope.

You all may not know what my current situation that I am dealing with, but some of it does involve my mother directly. You can read my blog if you desire, link http://meladorian.blogspot.com/. Anywho, as I said before I spent a great deal of time with her today. I had planned on mentioning to her some of the things I have happened to figure out recently, as a heads up for further conversation when we had time alone to truely discuss it. Over lunch, I brought forth the issues I had noticed of myself. Gently, mind you, because I wanted her to hear the whole thing. I let her know the generalization, and the issues that have come to my attention as seriously detrimental practices of protection.. and my anxieties.. and where it stems from. I didn't really expect for her to go nuts, but at the same time I have not had this conversation with her ever. She actually, opened up to me better than I expected. The kicker was, I told her the truth. I didn't sugar coat it. She asked, if she was involved, whether she got a smiley face or a frownie face when it came down to it.. and I told her, "Mom. You have given me many tools that have made dealing with these issues I have discovered possible to sort out. You taught me to be openminded, and to never jump to conclusions. You allowed me to figure things out on my own, without fighting it as some parents would. But I cannot lie to you here, and tell you that I feel you did your part as my mother during those years." She blinked. She nodded. She did not  fight me. She did not argue. She did not instill guilt. She did not change the subject. She looked me in the eyes, and she told me, " Then we will talk. I am so sorry you feel this way. We will talk when you are ready."

WOW.

Did that just go a little too well? I mean, I really felt no anxiety. I didn't feel angry. I felt... relieved. We have not gone to the depths yet, But now I know, I have an opportunity where when I do, I run a really high chance of actually working through some of the issues that do involve her. Mostly my stepdad. But she married the bastard..and she was the one who was supposed to protect me from it.

Later this afternoon, I was telling her about some books that I was wanting for Christmas (thats pretty much all I want) and how I didn't think that I would get them; So, I went ahead and got the ones I was pretty sure I wouldn't be getting for christmas because they were not on amazon (Stef's books, tee-hee). She then asked me, what kind of books? Well, I said "Philosopy and Truth." She blinked again.. she smiled.. I didn't know what she was going to say, and I almost felt uncomfortable when she said, "I have been delving in to understanding all religions. I got an audiobook on Buddhism and it was actually very very interesting." My reaction: Excuse me? Mother? Am I talking to my mother???

Mind F**K!!! lol....

I was thinking about it on the way home. I had to send her a text message saying, "buddhism, eh?" She responded that she is to stay catholic yet understand & respect all beliefs." I responded with, "even our atheist friends? ( I have not admitted this to her yet.)"

"Even them."

Well, it led to the discussion again as to why she wants to do this, just out of curiosity. She continued on saying, that it is important to understand why you believe what you believe, view all of your options, and from there you have a better understanding of what you believe as a whole.

Okay, so perfect opportunity to throw the ball. I started asking her some questions (she broke down and called me), some of the questions I have asked myself, challenging her answers, and just having a genuine conversation that I cannot even have with my best friend. I practically admitted that I don't believe in god anymore, and she even stated that if one were to believe what I was proposing, that she actually doesn't see where there is room to argue, because it is in fact quite valid.She admitted where my points exceeded that of her logic. She also said, that with such arguments as mine, that I have alot of good points, and it shows that I really have been thinking things through.SHe didn't denounce god, but she didn't shut me down either. She also didn't go on a mission to save my soul. How wonderful IS that?????

So my question is, who kidnapped my mother?

My feelings are... good. Very, very good. Wow. Amazing. I never thought my mother.... Till next time. Sorry this was so long. I guess I have alot to say today.

Hi there,

First off, that was a beautiful story about the young child you reached out to.  It brought a smile to my face.  You should be very proud of yourself for being able to give this child such a compassionate and interested level of interaction.  Children really have this natural grace and openness than they're dying to share with people.  You did this child a tremendous favor by speaking with her.

I don't know the details of your interaction with your stepdad, but you're totally right: if he was the cause of any emotion or physical trauma in your life, your mother is just as culpable for it as he is.  Is she still with him?  Do you have any kind of relationship with him in the present?

There seems to be a mismatch between the pleasure you have in seeing how responsive your mother has been in your chats recently, and the simple fact that for some reason, you've held back on telling her you're an atheist, etc.  I'm not going to challenge your feelings and happiness at all, and I'm sorry if I sound like I am.  It seems that you're becoming increasingly honest with your mother, and it's not causing an increase in panic or anxiety; that's great!  Keep up the fantastic work, and hopefully you will be able to fully RTR with her eventually.

Your situation really resonates with me, because a couple of years ago I was able to explain my atheism and libertarian tendencies to my mother, and she accepted it, without changing her own political and religious views.  I was happy about that back then, but it took a lot more introspection and self-interest before I discovered I was then and for most of my life, a victim of her emotional incest.  I ended up deriving a tremendous amount of pleasure whenever she would mention my views with the tiniest bit of approval, and she used that approval the way that you can use a piece of meat to force a dog to look whatever direction you even slightly gesture towards.  Pretty ugly stuff, but at this point I'm kind of rambling about me.

So, thanks for sharing the great post!  Thanks for sharing the details of what seems like a really interesting and varied day.

JC Hewitt:

Emotions are involuntary physical reactions determined by personal values. Change requires both struggle and consistency. Actions carry moral significance, not words.

Is your mother a good woman, based on her past actions?

Thank you for simplified outline btw. It will prove useful.. I am in my beginning stages of all of this, I have discovered alot, and what worries me the most is how I reach the actual change, insure I am as consistent with my actions as I am with my words, and consistent with the change as well as all of it being true.

I need this, keep it coming!!

You pose a good question. Is my mother a good woman, based upon her past actions. Just being asked that question kind of gave me a sinking feeling. What I want most, and what is true are two different things. So what I want most, is for my mother to still be in my life.. why? because I almost feel as though my mother survived some of the twisted stuff that I did. What is true however, is yes she did. She did survive it. However, she claims it has gotten better. But she is still with this man. It was her responsibility to protect me from this torment. She made a few attempts. It didn't matter though.. she stayed with him. I had to stay with her. The truth is, she is responsible for the continuance. I gained things from her; yet I lost so much because she didn't protect me from it. She tried to help me still grow and be functional, and not totally destroyed... but I am still broken and it was she, who was supposed to protect me. She, was my protection and she didn't do that. She knew what was happening.

Milo:

First off, that was a beautiful story about the young child you reached out to.  It brought a smile to my face.  You should be very proud of yourself for being able to give this child such a compassionate and interested level of interaction.  Children really have this natural grace and openness than they're dying to share with people.  You did this child a tremendous favor by speaking with her.

Reaching out to people on any level beyond just face value, has been impossible in most cases for a very very long time. I suppose the significance of this is, I didn't see a child by themself that I felt sorry for. I saw a person there, I saw myself in there somewhere, and I really felt as though she had as much capability of feeling and understanding as any other person.. I broke through face value. I really felt as though I was myself to her.. and my reward was a reciprocation that only a child can give sometimes. She helped me too.

Milo:

I don't know the details of your interaction with your stepdad, but you're totally right: if he was the cause of any emotion or physical trauma in your life, your mother is just as culpable for it as he is.  Is she still with him?  Do you have any kind of relationship with him in the present?

reference my response to JC below. or above. whichever. I do not have a relationship with him. I feel as though there is this big grey area, and I have for a long time when I am around him. I don't feel anxiety around him, because he ceased the stuff from yesteryear when I left the house. But at the same time, I don't feel anything whatsoever around him. When I have to hug him, and yes I just said have to hug him, its... a struggle. Its.. grey. It isn't real in the least. It is entirely numb now.

Milo:

There seems to be a mismatch between the pleasure you have in seeing how responsive your mother has been in your chats recently, and the simple fact that for some reason, you've held back on telling her you're an atheist, etc.  I'm not going to challenge your feelings and happiness at all, and I'm sorry if I sound like I am.  It seems that you're becoming increasingly honest with your mother, and it's not causing an increase in panic or anxiety; that's great!  Keep up the fantastic work, and hopefully you will be able to fully RTR with her eventually.

I don't mind my interpretations being challenged. All of this is beneficial, and I'm learning to trust myself more with what I really feel, so if there is a skewing on someone elses part, I will consider the latter, with the knowledge that I am still subjectively feeling what i feel, and may still be correct. Phew. That being said.. ;)

Lets see. I suppose the pleasure comes from simply, not being totally tossed aside and assumed crazy? That is more my fear from anyone when I say something that is true to me, not exclusively my mother. What is exclusive with my mother, is there are things in the past, that I must discuss with her, and I must tell her the role she played and how it makes me feel, and how I am affected now. I do, have to disclose all of my beliefs, including atheism, and I want to "warm up the seat" before plopping her down in it and telling it all. The last thing I want, is to tell all without her knowing the basis of what I believe, and her falling into the same catagory as everyone else by shutting it out before contemplating that my beliefs are based upon rationality and hard work and deep contemplation... as opposed to something someone told me one day and I just decided HEY!!! I don't believe anymore because its rad. I feel that in order for my mother to understand fully what I am saying, I have to let her know everything and why, before I tell her what she DOESN"T want to hear. I don't know if I really believe that she views me as a teenager... I surely do talk to her as though she is assuming I am though. Hmmm. help me out with this one.

Milo:

Your situation really resonates with me, because a couple of years ago I was able to explain my atheism and libertarian tendencies to my mother, and she accepted it, without changing her own political and religious views.  I was happy about that back then, but it took a lot more introspection and self-interest before I discovered I was then and for most of my life, a victim of her emotional incest.  I ended up deriving a tremendous amount of pleasure whenever she would mention my views with the tiniest bit of approval, and she used that approval the way that you can use a piece of meat to force a dog to look whatever direction you even slightly gesture towards.  Pretty ugly stuff, but at this point I'm kind of rambling about me.

 I feel like my mother is not changing her views openly. I do feel as though she is opening up, and being rebellious of her own assumptions of past(for lack of better description) in silence with a slight hint in my direction. I would like to know the difference, and where she really does stand, and I did find it quite interesting how she genuinely accepted many of my proposals and took them in and considered them. I mean, we DISCUSSED them. It is difficult to recall all aspects of the conversation, but I will say i never imagined that she would take something so controversial, and the fact that I was questioning what SHE taught me, and giving it actual consideration. It is promising, and I am still trying not to draw too many conclusions right now. I know I will tell her. The only anxiety I have left, with telling her the entire truth, is her assuming something because she doesn't have enough information to consider it valid. I also feel, in order for things to be the way they should be, I need to evaluate all aspects of our relationship. Even the past. Oh, how I am trying.

Milo:

So, thanks for sharing the great post!  Thanks for sharing the details of what seems like a really interesting and varied day.

Thank you, for your thoughts and contributing. All of you are really helping me out tons with your input.

MeladorianGal:

I feel that in order for my mother to understand fully what I am saying, I have to let her know everything and why, before I tell her what she DOESN"T want to hear. I don't know if I really believe that she views me as a teenager... I surely do talk to her as though she is assuming I am though.

I also feel this way when I have been giving my parents full disclosure on their shortcomings with me in the past and talking about how it affects me now as well. With this feeling in mind, although my parents would be receptive to what I say or may agree with some things, the great fear that I've found that persists is whether they will actually heed any of my advice or act upon it at all, rather than treating it as the rantings of their son who they just want to placate so that we can continue the relationship. I'd say that's the hardest part to deal with, because sometimes you have to dance around topics so that you can introduce them at the right time, but the fact that we have to do that when our parents are supposed to be the mature ones represents a complete shift in the power differential, and it feels really uncomfortable to almost be treating THEM as the kids rather the other way around. It's extremely hard to get away from this feeling because even though they've said that they understand the passive aggression they used on me and condescension and lack of curiosity in the past, I just have this big feeling that absolutely nothing will change, and yeah, words are just words sometimes, and if they just treat it like some abstract exercise I'm putting them through then I really don't feel like I've accomplished anything. Just saying watch out for that, you may encounter it as well, because actually from what you've described I'm just around the same time as you in terms of that I am dealing with that as well as my mom and dad, and I feel like I can really empathize with your situation with your mother.

My mom is also realizing these things, but god it all seems like it does barely anything in terms of action. Yes, I was extremely surprised my dad started looking for a therapist, and that's good, but I mean I have been the one making moves and trying to alleviate THEIR marriage, and telling them to share more of their feelings with each other if they really love each other. I have even been questioning why my mom puts up with my dad because he has almost no access to his emotions, and he recently told me he hasn't felt particularly happy or sad about anything in years, which just confirms my thoughts that he is really dissociated, and I'm sure my mom has no small part in this (and his mom too). I was even talking about divorce with her, which was anxiety loaded for me to say the least, but it still doesn't seem to have any effect, and it seems like words are just words at this point, where she married him for stability rather than for actually being happy or connecting with him on a personal level.

MeladorianGal:

When I have to hug him, and yes I just said have to hug him, its... a struggle. Its.. grey. It isn't real in the least. It is entirely numb now.

Anyways, with this subject, one suggestion I would have (and I haven't had to deal with this yet, but I will, and I realize it's scary as hell, haha, and hopefully when I return home I will be honest with myself) is to really act on that feeling of not wanting to hug your dad. If the feeling is as strong as you described where it is a struggle and you have to numb yourself to hug him, I don't think that is helpful for trusting your instincts at all, and is probably a little detrimental. But of course there could be good reasons why you just go ahead and hug him anyways, I don't know, and it's just my opinion that you should really trust yourself and act as if your emotions are true, because, for me anyways, trusting myself consistently is the one thing that I feel has impacted my life the most in this time that I've been dealing with this kind of honesty with my friends and family. It's really hard and disorienting at times, but I think it's helpful to just act like everything I feel is there for a reason and I just have to be curious about it if it feels strange, because it is then that I usually realize I haven't been paying attention to my instincts and completely disregarding them (and that's why it sometimes feels strange or awkward to finally act on them, since it's such a rare occurence). If you are wrong later then you will have time to reflect on that and work out the rationality behind it, but I think it's the most important aspect of FDR to just dig in and trust yourself, in my opinion. Let me know what you think

I am in a similar situation with my family, but my mother the abuser and my father the stand by. i would sneak out of the house at night as a child because i could not sleep. when i was home this summer my father was telling some "funny" stories about how he would sneak out as a child. his father was also very abusive and i have always kind of given him a slide because he wasn't the one to hit or degrade me. he was acutally quite loving and supportive. when he was telling his story i said "and you wander why i did it" and he said "no i didn't. in that moment i realized he was no different than her. it was the most painful feeling for him to confirm that he knew what was happening and did nothing to stop it. I think when you are dealing with the one who didn't protect you, that you put them in your boat. It feels like they were expierencing it with you. no one wants to be in that hell alone so when we are trying to get through this mess as an adult we feel like they are too. But you were a child and she/he was an abult and while you as an adult are trying to figure out this mess they created, they are still there with that person and they were there everyday and any day they could have picked you up and carried you out, but they didn't. i have yet to confront my family on these things. i know that need to, but at the same time i feell like i don't even want to waste my energy on people who could treat a child like that.

JC Hewitt:

Just being asked that question kind of gave me a sinking feeling.

This is your authentic experience of your mother.

 I didn't quite understand how the sinking feeling was the authentic response to my mother. I almost wanted to respond after thinking about it for about an hour, "NO JC, you are wrong. I don't get that feeling from my mother." It came to me today though, quite by accident. So as for now, I do hope you can catch my post tomarrow, because I would like to address what you have suggested. However, I am so tired right now my eyes are crossing..

JC Hewitt:

in order for things to be the way they should be

What do you mean by this?

maybe I am just overlooking it.. but I read my post three times and i don't see where I said this. It could be the tiredness though. Its been a rough week :)

JC Hewitt:

The only anxiety I have left, with telling her the entire truth, is her assuming something because she doesn't have enough information to consider it valid. I also feel, in order for things to be the way they should be, I need to evaluate all aspects of our relationship. Even the past. Oh, how I am trying.

It needs better wording is all. In order for any relationship of integrity to be possible with my mother, I need to evaluate all aspects of our past and present relationship; I need to have found my truth and uncovered that to which I have hidden from myself before this is a possiblity to present to her. Is that a little better J.C.?