Freedomain Radio

in
Latest post Thu, Apr 24 2008 10:59 AM by Shack. 14 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (15 items)
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 10:13 AM

    Angry Driver [angrydrive] "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    I just spilled a beverage.  I lost about half the drink, and it took me a few minutes to clean up.  Objectively, this event was no catastrophe.  But when it happened, I experienced a surge of rage.  It felt the same as if I had stubbed a toe or gotten cut off in traffic.  It was a surge of adrenaline.  But I don't think my body would dump a bunch of adrenaline into my system as a result of spilling a drink.  So why would people get so upset at such an inconsequential event?
  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 11:00 AM In reply to

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    Can you elaborate just a tiny bit?
  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 11:06 AM In reply to

    • Shack
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Dec 18 2007
    • Lawrence, Ks
    • Posts 201
    • Gold Donator

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    How do you think you would have reacted if other people were around?
  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 11:23 AM In reply to

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    Shack:
    How do you think you would have reacted if other people were around?

    The same way.  I didn't react with rage.  I calmly cleaned up the mess.  Though I did mutter a curse.  But I did feel the rage surge through me for a number of minutes, and if someone had been around I probably wouldn't have been goofy or playful for several minutes.

    I remember once at work when my coworkers and I were carrying a heavy box and we dropped it on my foot.  I wasn't badly injured, but it did hurt.  I reacted with little more than to yank my foot away and yelp quietly in pain.  And they laughed and laughed at me.  I scowled at them and told them it wasn't funny.  They said they had two options: laugh at me or mock me, and they chose to laugh at me.

  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 11:52 AM In reply to

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    In general, the rage results from fear - the fear of being attacked for making a mistake, by your parents, when you were a child.

    Please join the new Freedomain Radio Facebook page:

    Freedomain Radio - The Largest Philosophy Conversation in the World | Promote Your Page Too


    All Free! - Audio, PDF. Print starting @ $9.99+
    Freedomain Radio Needs Your Support!


    My status

  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 11:59 AM In reply to

    • Shack
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Dec 18 2007
    • Lawrence, Ks
    • Posts 201
    • Gold Donator

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    It definitely is cause for frustration when you spill a drink on the carpet.  You suddenly create work for yourself that could have easily been avoided.  It would seem that a little anger is a reasonable reaction, this would be motivating to not make the same mistake, but rage wouldn't be justified as you say. 

    I just intentionally spilled my water on the carpet to help bring some insight into the situation. Smile  Would you say this is the same experience you would have every time? Or, what I am wondering, is if that sort of rage is being redirected at the spilled drink, but actually comes from another source.  When I think of the times I have spilled something in solitude, the amount of frustration I experience is related to my overall mood and frustrations with other events in my life.
     

  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 12:03 PM In reply to

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    JC Hewitt:
    I think you're right to remark that this is a strange way for your feelings to react to such a minor mistake. The answer as to why you react like this is certainly in your personal history somewhere.

     I totally agree.  But do other people feel like this?  It seems like they should, since we have expressions like road rage and "don't cry over spilled milk" and so forth.
     

  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 12:03 PM In reply to

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    Stefan Molyneux:
    In general, the rage results from fear - the fear of being attacked for making a mistake, by your parents, when you were a child.

    I do have a fear of making mistakes.  But I can't recall my parents ever attacking me for making a mistake. 

  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 12:07 PM In reply to

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    Shack:

    It definitely is cause for frustration when you spill a drink on the carpet.  You suddenly create work for yourself that could have easily been avoided.  It would seem that a little anger is a reasonable reaction, this would be motivating to not make the same mistake, but rage wouldn't be justified as you say. 

    I just intentionally spilled my water on the carpet to help bring some insight into the situation. Smile  Would you say this is the same experience you would have every time? Or, what I am wondering, is if that sort of rage is being redirected at the spilled drink, but actually comes from another source.  When I think of the times I have spilled something in solitude, the amount of frustration I experience is related to my overall mood and frustrations with other events in my life.
     

    The feelings are always the same, to a more or lesser degree, but my reaction will vary based on my current situation.  For example, I was running late for work a few weeks ago when I had the same situation, and I was a storm of cursing and slamming doors.  But I had just hit every red light, gotten stopped by road work on a railroad, ran out of gas, run out of clean clothes, it was very humid and I was sweating, etc.  This current time, I was just having a leisurely breakfast, so it was pretty easy to suppress any outbursts.
     

  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 1:00 PM In reply to

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    DanielOR:

    Stefan Molyneux:
    In general, the rage results from fear - the fear of being attacked for making a mistake, by your parents, when you were a child.

    I do have a fear of making mistakes.  But I can't recall my parents ever attacking me for making a mistake. 

    That's just not true, I'm afraid.

    If you're not willing to be honest, there's not much point in posting here.

    Please join the new Freedomain Radio Facebook page:

    Freedomain Radio - The Largest Philosophy Conversation in the World | Promote Your Page Too


    All Free! - Audio, PDF. Print starting @ $9.99+
    Freedomain Radio Needs Your Support!


    My status

  • Thu, Apr 24 2008 6:49 AM In reply to

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    Stefan Molyneux:
    That's just not true, I'm afraid.

    If you're not willing to be honest, there's not much point in posting here.

    When I was really young, my mother and I were walking into a store.  I pointed out the baldness of a man walking in front of us.  My mom shushed me.

    As a young child, I constantly confused similarly sounding words, like "infinite" and "infant".  And a more embarrassing "condo" and "condom", which came up a lot since I was big into SimCity on the Nintendo.

    When I was in elementary school, the goons asked us to gather intel on our parents' abusive habits, including alcohol and drug consumption.  I asked my parents about their drinking habits.  They were not pleased with the question.  They didn't drink at all until my sister and I graduated from college.  Now they enjoy a glass of wine on rare occasions.  But they explained to me in harried terms about how my sister and I could be snatched away by the state on the flimsiest of excuses.  At this point, I did not understand the distinction between hard and soft beverages, and I was always getting on my parents for drinking [coffee/water] and driving.

    Speaking of which, I used to mispronounce "teetotaler".  When I was confronted about this by my grandmother a few years ago on vacation, I defended my pronunciation vehemently.  We didn't have access to a dictionary or the Internet for the week.  When I got home, I looked it up.  I was wrong.  I also mispronounce "adjacent", which is only a problem when I try to use the adjectival form "adjacency".

    My parents thought Peter Pan was culty.  They also thought Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was culty, but I watched the cartoon anyway, and when they sat down with me and watched it, they learned it was harmless and allowed me to watch it freely.

    When I was in first or second grade, I stole all of the sticky tack in my classroom on a Friday afternoon.  I didn't realize I was stealing.  My parents explained what stealing was and why it was wrong, and they forced me to return the sticky tack and apologize on Monday.  I still didn't understand and I tried to steal the sticky tack again shortly thereafter, but I was caught red-handed.

    I once tried to frame my sister by turning on the lights in her room when she wasn't in her room.  The rule was that we had to turn off the lights when we left our rooms.  My sister did get in trouble the first time I framed her, but the second time my mom caught me red-handed.  Nevertheless, I naively denied my crime.  My dad tried to ground me for a weekend (being grounded, the punishment of choice by my parents, only lasted a few days with me, not weeks or months like I see on TV), but I had too many activities (cub scouts, little league, school projects, science fair, etc) that my punishment effectively meant I had to miss a single TV show episode that I tape recorded anyway and watched later.

    One of my mom's favorite anecdotes about me as a young child is this: when I was in daycare, I wouldn't dive in and play with the other children right away.  I would sit on the outskirts and study the entire scene for several minutes.  Then I would figure out what I wanted to do and then do it with an almost manic dedication.  I would organize the other kids into projects like building a Lego city.  This behavior would later get me into trouble with my elementary and middle school teachers (the tall poppy syndrome, perhaps?).  I was always being punished by teachers for being a bored, hormonal kid in a state gulag.  When my parents found out about it, they would have me moved to other teachers, and ultimately other schools until either I found a good teacher or the school year expired.

    All of my friends as a child were of a low-income or broken home demographic.  My parents are solidly middle/upper-middle class professionals with excellent financial responsibility.  We had the home that all the kids would hang out at.

    And on a final note, I don't appreciate being humiliated in public by being called a liar just because I don't immediately kow-tow to your foregone conclusions.  You showed no empathy, sympathy, curiosity, or respect for me, my history, my feelings, my family, or my current circumstances.  I know you and I don't and haven't ever gotten along like best buds, but if this and our other recent encounters is a good indicator of the nature of our relationship, then I think that is why there is "not much point in posting here".  I respect your ideas, Stef, and FDR has helped me over my fear of the black helicopters and my misplaced hope in a futile political system.  But deeper than that, I haven't gotten any help on these boards at all despite a number of attempts to reach out, and I don't think I will get any help here, especially in this "donators-only" clique that has arisen recently.  So I'll leave now, lurk occasionally, and return in a few years when I've gotten a job and therapy.

    Thank you for the podcasts.  I still owe you a few hundred more dollars, and I'll get it to you eventually (again, once I've gotten a job). 

  • Thu, Apr 24 2008 8:15 AM In reply to

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    Sorry to see you go, Daniel, that was a great, great post, very honest, I really appreciate you opening up like that, I really get the sense that you had a confusing, frustrating and baffling childhood in many ways...Left Hug

    Best of luck! 

    Please join the new Freedomain Radio Facebook page:

    Freedomain Radio - The Largest Philosophy Conversation in the World | Promote Your Page Too


    All Free! - Audio, PDF. Print starting @ $9.99+
    Freedomain Radio Needs Your Support!


    My status

  • Thu, Apr 24 2008 10:59 AM In reply to

    • Shack
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Dec 18 2007
    • Lawrence, Ks
    • Posts 201
    • Gold Donator

    Re: "Don't cry over spilled milk." Why not?

    Stefan Molyneux:
    DanielOR:

    Stefan Molyneux:
    In general, the rage results from fear - the fear of being attacked for making a mistake, by your parents, when you were a child.

    I do have a fear of making mistakes.  But I can't recall my parents ever attacking me for making a mistake. 

    That's just not true, I'm afraid.

    If you're not willing to be honest, there's not much point in posting here.

    Daniel's response to this was an "I saw that coming" moment.  There seemed to be some personal history between the two of you that made you come off as if you were tired of hearing him deny responsibility from his parents.  When I read it I cringed a little because it felt like it was a punch to Daniel.  Not to say that it was out of line in response to his comments or previous conversations though.  I interpret the interation as Stef having offered up his help over time and Daniel showing a lot of resistance.  So this end was inevitable since Daniel never gave his fair share to resolve his issues.  

    Daniel your response was strong and honest and I enjoyed reading it.

Page 1 of 1 (15 items)
Copyright 2005-2012 By Stefan Molyneux
Powered by Community Server (Non-Commercial Edition), by Telligent Systems