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Latest post Tue, May 31 2011 10:04 AM by GregG. 65 replies.
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  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 8:05 PM In reply to

    • locke
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Apr 23 2008
    • Posts 13

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    why not do it in public?
  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 8:11 PM In reply to

    • jimmy
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 25 2007
    • Charleston, South Carolina (US)
    • Posts 1,298

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    locke:
    why not do it in public?

    Perhaps you have another forum in mind?

  • Wed, Apr 23 2008 9:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    locke:
    why not do it in public?

    I think that is a fine idea. I can do a call any time this week - we'll open it up to whoever wants to listen in, and publish it as a podcast and video.

    Please let me know when the best time for you is.

    I look forward to talking with you! Smile

    Thanks!

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  • Fri, Apr 25 2008 9:05 PM In reply to

    • locke
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Apr 23 2008
    • Posts 13

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    I just wonder why you have to ban/disinvite/ask to leave anyone who disagrees with you.  Are you afraid of being disagreed with?  are you afraid your members will leave and not donate anymore?  both are perfectly ok i would just suggest that you be open and honest about it instead of hiding behind your banstick.
  • Sat, Apr 26 2008 10:44 AM In reply to

    • locke
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Apr 23 2008
    • Posts 13

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    bump
  • Sat, Apr 26 2008 10:58 AM In reply to

    • TonyB
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Apr 7 2008
    • Posts 82
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    locke:
    I just wonder why you have to ban/disinvite/ask to leave anyone who disagrees with you.  Are you afraid of being disagreed with?  are you afraid your members will leave and not donate anymore?  both are perfectly ok i would just suggest that you be open and honest about it instead of hiding behind your banstick.

    I'm not speaking for Stef, but for me personally I don't see anything in this that suggests curiosity or true willingness to debate.  All I see is aggression. Do you really think that a bunch of baiting accusations will get you anywhere?

    - Tony

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  • Sat, Apr 26 2008 11:20 AM In reply to

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    locke:
    I just wonder why you have to ban/disinvite/ask to leave anyone who disagrees with you.  Are you afraid of being disagreed with?  are you afraid your members will leave and not donate anymore?  both are perfectly ok i would just suggest that you be open and honest about it instead of hiding behind your banstick.

    Is that really what happens, Locke?

    Is it? 

    "Use the flame of knowledge to light candles, not peoples' hair"-- S. Molyneux

  • Sat, Apr 26 2008 5:27 PM In reply to

    • locke
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Apr 23 2008
    • Posts 13

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    bockman:

    locke:
    I just wonder why you have to ban/disinvite/ask to leave anyone who disagrees with you.  Are you afraid of being disagreed with?  are you afraid your members will leave and not donate anymore?  both are perfectly ok i would just suggest that you be open and honest about it instead of hiding behind your banstick.

    Is that really what happens, Locke?

    Is it? 

     

    Seems to be.  Danny was asked to leave and was just the most recent of the people who openly and honestly disagreed with stef.  I am being open, honest and curious.  I am also being ignored by the person I am directly questioning.  I have no mic so I will not be in a podcast or skype cast.  So, I wonder why he hasn't answered here. 

  • Sat, Apr 26 2008 5:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    locke:
    bockman:

    locke:
    I just wonder why you have to ban/disinvite/ask to leave anyone who disagrees with you.  Are you afraid of being disagreed with?  are you afraid your members will leave and not donate anymore?  both are perfectly ok i would just suggest that you be open and honest about it instead of hiding behind your banstick.

    Is that really what happens, Locke?

    Is it? 

     

    Seems to be.  Danny was asked to leave and was just the most recent of the people who openly and honestly disagreed with stef.  I am being open, honest and curious.  I am also being ignored by the person I am directly questioning.  I have no mic so I will not be in a podcast or skype cast.  So, I wonder why he hasn't answered here. 

     

    'Seems to be'. So, is it a fact that Stef bans people from this board for the sole reason that they disagree with him, or is that your subjective opinion?

    Can you post any evidence from any thread of discussion, any podcast, any video, in which Stef mentions that because someone disagreed with him, that person is banned from the boards?

    "Use the flame of knowledge to light candles, not peoples' hair"-- S. Molyneux

  • Sat, Apr 26 2008 6:16 PM In reply to

    • TonyB
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Apr 7 2008
    • Posts 82
    • Philosopher King

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    First this:

    locke:
    Are you afraid of being disagreed with?  are you afraid your members will leave and not donate anymore?

    Then this: 

    locke:
    I am being open, honest and curious.

    There are dozens of ways to approach the argument you wish to raise. (Producing evidence, for example.) You have chosen a way that is intentionally antagonistic and designed to provoke an emotional response.

    In the light of the above questions, you can't really expect anyone to believe you are open, honest, and curious, can you?

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  • Sat, Apr 26 2008 6:38 PM In reply to

    • locke
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Apr 23 2008
    • Posts 13

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    I would use this thread to show that you can be banned for disagreeing.  If you need evidence read all the posts.
  • Sat, Apr 26 2008 7:02 PM In reply to

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    To Locke:

    Oh, the only reason you don't want to Skype is you have no mic? No problemo - PM me your phone #, I can call you for a conference as well, no charge to you, so you can make your case and help me out.

    I hope this at least puts to rest the idea that I just ban people for disagreeing with me, as you do. Instead, I will post your criticisms to tens of thousands of listeners - since you prefer a public discussion, this should fit the bill perfectly.

    Thanks, I look forward to talking with you! Smile

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  • Sat, Apr 26 2008 7:11 PM In reply to

    • locke
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Apr 23 2008
    • Posts 13

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    why would you not post your answers here?
  • Sat, Apr 26 2008 7:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    locke:
    why would you not post your answers here?

     

    Why would you not answer my questions? 

    "Use the flame of knowledge to light candles, not peoples' hair"-- S. Molyneux

  • Sun, Apr 27 2008 9:49 AM In reply to

    Re: Hanging By A Thread: Flagpoles, Lifeboats, and the Edge of Ethics

    Locke, thanks for the support you've offered since Stefan asked me to stop posting, but to save myself from some potential embarrassment, I want to make clear that Stefan's actions were not quite as arbitrary as you've made them sound.  Stefan seemed to first become irritated with me after a particularly regrettable post I made on the night of St. Patrick's day, after I had been drinking for a while and had no business doing philosophy.  In that post, I reacted to Stefan's use of the term "valid concept" with quite a bit more hostility than was warranted, and Stefan immediately voiced his displeasure.  Though I offered a weak apology at the time, I don't think it was one of my better moments, and I can certainly understand why Stefan would be upset with me about it.  So one of Stefan's reasons for asking me to leave was that he didn't enjoy my posts, and I can see where that comes from; take that for what it's worth.

    Stefan's other stated reason for asking me to stop posting was that I consistently misrepresented or misunderstood his positions.  I don't see why I should be banned for misunderstanding, but misrepresenting seems somewhat more objectionable.  While I don't think that I've been generally unreasonable in interpreting what Stefan has said, his point does refer back to at least one past instance where he has made this claim, and could conceivably also refer to the large number of points where I've objected to something, and he's attempted to show why my objections are not effective.  To the extent that such patterns are objectionable (I personally think they're a totally normal part of philosophical debate; if every argument involved only a statement of a position and either a full acceptance or a correct rebuttal, I'd be out of a career!), this reason is also grounded in the truth.

    So I guess my point in posting this message is to say that although I appreciate your defending me, I don't think you're correct to say that Stefan only banned me for disagreeing.  I think that Stefan actually offered a perfectly fair defense against that claim when he pointed out that I've been disagreeing with him for a long time, and it would seem odd for him to suddenly decide that disagreeing is bad.  Given that he stated his reasons for asking me to leave, and given that we can trace those reasons back to things that have happened on his board, I don't see any pressing need to question Stefan's motives.  Perhaps you would argue that my offenses have not been objectionable enough to deserve a request to stop posting, but I don't feel that I have any business telling Stefan how he should feel about me.  After all, this is his forum.

    And sorry for violating our agreement, Stefan, but I figured that this was the kind of thing which warranted another post from me.  Don't worry, I'll be leaving now.

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