Freedomain Radio

So I have a question.

I have some neighbours in my apartment that seem to like propping their door open and then talking loudly inside it.

I would prefer they didn't do this, so I used Stef's question method to get them to stop.

Naturally, it worked like a charm. However, I have an issue. I still feel bad.

So, am I doing it wrong, or is it simply an unfortunate consequence of having to deal with these assholes, and I should just do it anyway?

Here's how it went.

I go up to their wide open door, and knock.

A woman answers, and I say, respectfully and politely as I can,

"May I ask why you have your door open?"

"I'm waiting for my husband."

Naturally, we can all see the clear relationship. I mean, if she closes the door, her husband will naturally die of thirst in the corridor, unable to get inside.

So, "Why does that require that you keep the door open?"

She calls someone else; she's clearly an immigrant and doesn't understand.

While we're waiting, one of the kids says, "We'll shut it in a moment." Let me just read the subtext for you. 'We know it's wrong but we're doing it anyway, so piss off.'

"Yes?" new woman answers.

"May I ask why you're keeping the door open?"

"I'm waiting for my husband." Lucky guy, I guess he has two wives.

Then the first woman says, "Why?"

I say, again as respectfully as I can, "Well, it is annoying, you're filling the corridor with noise."

Then they offer to shut it and I smile and bow, feeling naturally grateful, and we go our separate ways.

I have a shower. When I come out, I hear them again. So I have to go check to see what's going on of course. I can't just let them carry on after I've done that, can I?

I don't actually open the door right away. I hear some chatter, then,

"Don't. Talk. That man came and told us to shut the door."

I wince.

So, sure it worked like a charm. But I still feel bad. I think it's because:

I knew they'd see it as a dominance attempt. Frankly, if they'd just given me a reason why the husband couldn't open the door or something, I would have said, "Oh, sorry for bothering you then. Carry on." So, I believe that I successfully executed a request, not a command.

Second, I really don't like giving people more excuses to abuse their kids. I mean sure, they're gonna be abusing their kids anyway - they're abusing their neighbours, why would they be any better to their kids? But I still don't like it.

So, if these are indeed the reason, I think I carry on anyway, knowing that they're broken and my choices are accept their abuse or feel a bit bad about stopping it.

But, perhaps I'm missing something?

Notably, this was my first attempt at the technique. I think it went off well, but then I wouldn't really know, would I?

It sounds like you did the right thing, and of course they're going to turn it on you - but why don't you move to a better neighborhood?

Alan,

While I can't help much in the way of explaining/analyzing your situation with your neighbors, I would like to comment on your signature line.  

When you wound a soul, it bleeds fear.

Where is that line from?  Did Stef say that?  It's quite powerful & very thought-provoking.  I will ponder it some more on my (private) blog if that's ok with you. 

Good luck with your neighbors, btw.  Aint't apt. living grand?  Stephen & I lived in Portland during summer 2006.  Apparently everyone in our building smoked cigarettes & with no AC (the weather doesn't necessitate it there), we breathed in their pollution all summer...  ugh!
 

Then the first woman says, "Why?"

I say, again as respectfully as I can, "Well, it is annoying, you're filling the corridor with noise."

"You're probably not aware that people in the hall can listen to your private conversations, is that correct?"

Well look at it this way.

If they are letting everyone hear their conversations then that must mean they already consider you a part of the conversation. Either that or they are complete idiots. 

If they are idiots then you did the right thing because you only need to educate them and they will make a better choice. If not then you can assume they are letting themselves be heard intentionally.  If this is the case then it is a statement of inclusion.  In that they are including their neighbors in their life. 

IF they in fact have taken the first step and provided an action that states, "All who can hear are close to us as far as we are concerned." Now they didn't ask you if you wanted to be included in their affairs but the standard is set.  I think the guilt may be coming from the fact that you have acted as a distancing entity where there was a human social state of closeness....well one way closeness, a one-sided kind of closeness.  If you had perhaps done in turn to them and offered to talk to them to get to know your neigh boors they might come to respect you and not annoy you as opposed to you coming with a intention of keeping distance. 

It would have been proper for them to come to you and get to know the kind of person you are before including you in their lives but also it would have been proper for you to do the same and then politely asking them you would like more peace and quiet and  then  for sure you would not be that man, you would be (insert your name here)

 

Alan:

She calls someone else; she's clearly an immigrant and doesn't understand.

Alan,

You may have part of your answer right here.  You say she's "clearly an immigrant".  From where?  Perhaps her culture is much more relaxed socially then most Americans are.  I notice that Americans really like their privacy - don't wanna know anyone else is living next door, don't wanna know their names even (@ least in NJ!).

I grew up in Vegas mostly & lived around many Mexican families.  Speaking very generally, I love Latinos - they are so warm & inviting - they treat everyone like family.  I can very easily imagine a Mexican family having an open door policy if guests were expected, so the guest us immediately received.  Does this make sense?

Maybe you can take their culture (whatever it is) into consideration & re-examine your situation?  I'm not suggesting that you've done anything "wrong" here, as I mentioned in my first post, I don't like to be bothered by my neighbors either - it is your home & your certainly deserve to have peace & quiet.  I'm simply trying to look at this from a different perspective...

Stefan Molyneux:

It sounds like you did the right thing, and of course they're going to turn it on you - but why don't you move to a better neighborhood?

Aside from this relatively minor complaint, it's not bad. They moved into mine, basically.

laura.soltesz:

Alan,

While I can't help much in the way of explaining/analyzing your situation with your neighbors, I would like to comment on your signature line.  

When you wound a soul, it bleeds fear.

Where is that line from?  Did Stef say that?  It's quite powerful & very thought-provoking.  I will ponder it some more on my (private) blog if that's ok with you. 

I think it's mine, actually. So yes, I'd be honoured.

bockman:

Then the first woman says, "Why?"

I say, again as respectfully as I can, "Well, it is annoying, you're filling the corridor with noise."

"You're probably not aware that people in the hall can listen to your private conversations, is that correct?"

Ah! Yes! Thanks.

Mr Bojangles:

Hehe. Boors. Your comment complete enough that I'm just gonna go think about it.

laura.soltesz:

Alan:

She calls someone else; she's clearly an immigrant and doesn't understand.

Alan,

You may have part of your answer right here.  You say she's "clearly an immigrant".  From where?  

...

 I can very easily imagine a Mexican family having an open door policy if guests were expected, so the guest us immediately received.  Does this make sense?

...

Maybe you can take their culture (whatever it is) into consideration & re-examine your situation?  ...  I'm simply trying to look at this from a different perspective...

It does make sense. I do expect them to be able to explain this for themselves, however. That's why I like the whole question method so much; to give them every opportunity to do so. Also, based on what I saw, they knew we would mind and just hoped no one would say anything.

Still, your comments have helped me be more conscious of these goals. 

I never learned to tell the various ethnicities apart. All I know is that their English is rough and they're browner than I am.