Freedomain Radio

I'm a little confused about islam and for some reason i've been thinking about it lately. Is islam in anyway connected to christianity? Ive always thought that mouhammed was a profit like Jesus, but does that mean that muslims follow the old testament like jews?

I also used to think that the three major religions were islam, christianity and judaism and they were all connected in some way. Like essentially everyone believed in some core religion. A little bit of internet research demolished that belief. The third most popular religion is actually hinduism and judaism is barely on the radar. But I'd still like to find out where Islam fits in there. Do the two most popular religions in the world stem from the same core historical beliefs?

Islam is a spinoff of judaism like christianity is.

ianlippert:

I'm a little confused about islam and for some reason i've been thinking about it lately. Is islam in anyway connected to christianity? Ive always thought that mouhammed was a profit like Jesus, but does that mean that muslims follow the old testament like jews?

I also used to think that the three major religions were islam, christianity and judaism and they were all connected in some way. Like essentially everyone believed in some core religion. A little bit of internet research demolished that belief. The third most popular religion is actually hinduism and judaism is barely on the radar. But I'd still like to find out where Islam fits in there. Do the two most popular religions in the world stem from the same core historical beliefs?

The Big Three all share the Old Testament...

The short story is that muhammad was trained by rabbis, who for a while actually thought that he might be the messiah since he was so good at that bullshit. Then muhammad turned around and said that god made mistakes in the old testaments and gospels, that they have been corrupted over time, and then dictated the quran which is supposedly gods final word.

I'm pretty sure that mohammed claimed to be descended from ishmael, who was the fictitious bastard son of abraham. So it's all sort of connected. Muslims consider christians and jews to be part of the club, but not really active members.

jorgeben:

The short story is that muhammad was trained by rabbis, who for a while actually thought that he might be the messiah since he was so good at that bullshit. Then muhammad turned around and said that god made mistakes in the old testaments and gospels, that they have been corrupted over time, and then dictated the quran which is supposedly gods final word.

I'm pretty sure that mohammed claimed to be descended from ishmael, who was the fictitious bastard son of abraham. So it's all sort of connected. Muslims consider christians and jews to be part of the club, but not really active members.

yeah they're referred to in muslim holy texts as the "people of the scripture" they believe jesus existed about 70-80% the way the bible said he did, just that he didn't die on the cross and wasn't God. There's supposed to be some passage in the new testament where jesus mentions a "bearer of things you can not yet bear" (paraphrased) and that's what they interpret as muhammad, as well as some other jewish prophecies usually attributed as the prediction of jesus.there's even apocalyptic "prophecy" about jews and christians fighting alongside their yet-to-come non-prophet messiah and die as martyrs, yadda yadda yadda, etc etc etc. It's pretty much the same old bait and switch you have with all religions, they have lots of feel good messages as bait, then they start in with the creation of divisions and simulated attacks/holy wars. You see pretty much as much with christians and jews too.

Thanks for the clarification guys. So does anyone know why the two biggest religions in the world are based of the same historical texts? With all the religions floating around back then, it seems very unlikely that it would two closely related religions that became dominant. Is the old testament really that good of a product ;)

I think Judaism was the original monotheism, which has turned out to be the most effective in terms of controlling the young. An all-powerful parent is a pretty scary concept for a kid. The others just spun off of that.

ianlippert:

Thanks for the clarification guys. So does anyone know why the two biggest religions in the world are based of the same historical texts? With all the religions floating around back then, it seems very unlikely that it would two closely related religions that became dominant. Is the old testament really that good of a product ;)

State backing and slave morality!

Actually, that's just a guess from a rank amateur.  Perhaps somebody else can be more enlightening.   

reddeerrick:

I think Judaism was the original monotheism, which has turned out to be the most effective in terms of controlling the young. An all-powerful parent is a pretty scary concept for a kid. The others just spun off of that.

yeah I hear that, the concept someone who transcends normal existence and can't be fully fathomed is easier to manipulate that some character with more definition to him.

also, I hate to be contrary here, but actually, zoroastrianism is the oldest recorded religion The three take home points I found on that page:

"Legends say that his birth was predicted and that attempts were made by the forces of evil to kill him as a child...He preached a monotheism...He was attacked for his teaching,"

speaking of influences on judeo-christendom "beliefs surrounding [ a ] God and [an evil powerful destructive spirit], the soul, heaven and hell, savior, resurrection, final judgment, etc." 

and 

"Zoroastrians once dominated an area stretching from what is now Rome and Greece to India and Russia"

hmm, all the way from Rome to india you say? I wonder if any interesting plot of land lies in the middle somewhere...maybe a country with excellent access to the sea where population centers usually spring up....just saying...

James A Pyrich:

ianlippert:

Thanks for the clarification guys. So does anyone know why the two biggest religions in the world are based of the same historical texts? With all the religions floating around back then, it seems very unlikely that it would two closely related religions that became dominant. Is the old testament really that good of a product ;)

State backing and slave morality!

Actually, that's just a guess from a rank amateur.  Perhaps somebody else can be more enlightening.   

well as far as online boards go, especially ones for listeners to an atheist's podcast, I don't think we'll get many "pros" here, but your (I'm guessing fairly) educated guess seems pretty accurate: People love slave morality, as long as it's not their morality. They're the ones who would gravitated towards state power anyways.

Do you really think that people "love" slave morality?

well sorry,  poor phrasing maybe, I meant the self-centered "love" it in the sense of "I really love pepsi." They usually have their own "Master morality" that allows them to feel justified in it.

I think that as children, they are terrified of it, and as adults, they inflict it as a result of this scar tissue...

Stefan Molyneux:

I think that as children, they are terrified of it, and as adults, they inflict it as a result of this scar tissue...

well I'm sure that's part of the overall problem, but I'm also sure that those who gravitate towards state power generally prefer it when people just do what they're told when they're told and to scold others for questioning them, religion being just one of the ways they manage to do that. 

The book, "The Truth About Mohammed" is an interesting read which depicts the life of the man and the history.

Short version:

Mo is Born in Mecca

Mecca is dominated by pagan religions and Jewish settlements in an around the area.

Mo tells the Jews he is their promised Messiah.  Jews tell him he is full of shit.

Mo goes on a bloody rampage to forcibly convert non-believers to his religion over a number of years.  He is basically a warlord that uses a religious message to provide himself and others moral justification for his maniacal ego.

His writings are provided to him by the Angel Gabriel in a cave over a number of years.  Mo can not read nor can he write so the various stories are recorded by his fellow warriors in a series of books (Hadiths).  My question is why didn't God talk directly to him and what the hell was Gabriel doing hanging out in a cave?  ....and why don't more people see the Easter Bunny?

As mentioned followers of Islam consider it the newest and most perfect branch of the Abrahamic religions of Judaism and Christianity.  

Many of the Hadiths (stories or books) are not shy about the killing of non-believers. 

I know a number of Muslim folks who are genuinely good people but that could be more an artifact of their Arab culture. 

 ~ Corence of Arabia