Freedomain Radio

ash:

Stefan Molyneux:

I think you're totally right, the metaphor is over-extended. What I meant is you're attacking an innocent - in this case, your body.

Our bodies did the best they could to save us from abuse when we were children - and then, when we are free, we take out our anxieties and dissociation on our bodies by attacking them, just as our parents did.

Tattoos are scorched and blackened tears.

Cool, thats along the same lines as what I was thinking. I think the discussion had slipped into a pattern where we defined the actions as wrong rather than incorrect. Semantics perhaps, but to me the former invokes a moral value and the latter a practical one, and mixing the two is exactly what we are trying to free ourselves from in the first place :)
 

Absolutely, great catch Ash, thanks! 

I know this topic is a bit old (well, a few days) and so I'm sorry if this is considered necroposting, but I wanted to add a few comments. I should state that I have multiple piercings, intend to get more, and will get a tattoo or two sometime in the future. I just cannot agree that I am 'punishing an innocent' whereas that innocent is my body. I disagree on the basis that I do not view it as a punishment. It hurts a bit, but not too much, and it strengthens and alters my appearance--which plays a role in the exploration of myself and body. It is not out of anxiety or dissociation. Saying that tattos are "scorched and blackened tears" is a little over the top in my opinion.

Sure, but so far that's only an assertion - what alternate theory do you propose as to why people would want to hurt themselves for adornment and display?

Is that why you would wear them - as a mark of membership in a tribe?

dude, you know that this tribal thing that you are describing is called collectivism, right?

Stefan Molyneux:

Sure, but so far that's only an assertion - what alternate theory do you propose as to why people would want to hurt themselves for adornment and display?

If body modification were made completely painless I wonder if people would still participate in it. I have a feeling people would.
 

On the topic of pain, I rebelliously got an eyebrow piercing as a youngster.. the piercing didn't hurt at all, what hurt was someone trying to force a round ring through a straight hole.

Sorry to interrupt, but what are you thoughts on this, Stef (or anybody else :P)?